Why Jews will never accept Jesus

[Open Heart]

Want to share with us what those different things might be?

I believe that God is one. (Not three in one.) I believe that God is clear in his scriptures in describing his nature: God is not a man/mortal (and thus Jesus cannot be God). I believe the messiah is yet to come, since no one has fulfilled the messianic prophecies to date (including Jesus). I believe that God calls us to obedience, that faith is measured by our faithfulness, that essentially it is what we do that matters. I could go on and on. But that's a good start. See, lots of beliefs -- just different from yours.

 

[Open Heart]

Doesn't work that way. Wishful thinking does not solve the problem.

The shoulders some stand on thinking it is sufficiency had a bad case of dandruff.

It was the darkness and ignorance in their day that made some appear to be great. After coming out of the oppressive Catholic church? The average fundamentalist pastor today could been seen as revolutionary and possibly a genius. Today, its just basic learning.

Gene I hope that some day you will remember us, and remember Hashem, and return to the covenant of your people.

 

[GeneZ]

I believe that God is one. (Not three in one.) I believe that God is clear in his scriptures in describing his nature: God is not a man/mortal (and thus Jesus cannot be God). I believe the messiah is yet to come, since no one has fulfilled the messianic prophecies to date (including Jesus). I believe that God calls us to obedience, that faith is measured by our faithfulness, that essentially it is what we do that matters. I could go on and on. But that's a good start. See, lots of beliefs -- just different from yours.

The Father = One Deity.

The Son = Same Deity and Soul in union.

The Holy Spirit= Same Deity and Spirit in union.

The Lord God of Israel before the Incarnation yet consisted of two natures in union. Deity and Soul! The Soul is what God is to make man able to relate to Him.

The Lord God of Israel prior to the Incarnation was Soul and Deity in union. In the Incarnation. The Soul of Jehovah denied Himself of His right to be as God and lowered Himself to becoming as a man is. Body, soul, and human spirit. His Deity at that point to to remain in neutral for Jesus to remain as man to qualify to die as a man on the Cross. The perfect man. The Lamb without spot or blemish.

Its found in the OT. Jehovah and Soul in union!



'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover,
I will make my dwelling among you, and my soul will not reject you.'I will also
walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12


"And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16


"Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5


“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred
meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble
to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14




Jesus made it clear! God is "spirit." God is not soul. John 4:23-24!


Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship
the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father
seeks. God is Spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

God is Spirit - not Soul.

Therefore the Lord God of Israel was two natures, and was called God!

Take your time with this one.... grace and peace

 

[Open Heart]

The Father = One Deity.

The Son = Same Deity and Soul in union.

The Holy Spirit= Same Deity and Spirit in union.

The Lord God of Israel before the Incarnation yet consisted of two natures in union. Deity and Soul! The Soul is what God is to make man able to relate to Him.

The Lord God of Israel prior to the Incarnation was Soul and Deity in union. In the Incarnation. The Soul of Jehovah denied Himself of His right to be as God and lowered Himself to becoming as a man is. Body, soul, and human spirit. His Deity at that point to to remain in neutral for Jesus to remain as man to qualify to die as a man on the Cross. The perfect man. The Lamb without spot or blemish.

Its found in the OT. Jehovah and Soul in union!



'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover,
I will make my dwelling among you, and my soul will not reject you.'I will also
walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12


"And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16


"Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5


“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred
meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble
to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14




Jesus made it clear! God is "spirit." God is not soul. John 4:23-24!


Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship
the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father
seeks. God is Spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

God is Spirit - not Soul.

Therefore the Lord God of Israel was two natures, and was called God!

Take your time with this one.... grace and peace

I'm not going to debate the Trinity here. It is enough to say it is a very muddied impure form of monotheism, and not in line with the God of the Tanakh.

I don't know where you get the idea of God having two natures, deity and soul. This theology is not present in church teaching. Is it your own idea? Or perhaps you are just influenced by someone else making up their own theology.

 

[GeneZ]

I'm not going to debate the Trinity here. It is enough to say it is a very muddied impure form of monotheism, and not in line with the God of the Tanakh.

I don't know where you get the idea of God having two natures, deity and soul. This theology is not present in church teaching. Is it your own idea? Or perhaps you are just influenced by someone else making up their own theology.

You do not know what you are talking about. Of course God is a Trinity.

Because you can not see it does not mean it is not a reality.

No one can see God. The Father is God with only one nature. No one can see God.

What is needed? Is a means for making God seeable.

Men are souls. God transcends a human soul. No soul without some means to make it possible can be shown God in a manner we can relate to.

Well? Guess what? Jesus by means of His Soul being in union with the Father... is able to translate and "interpret" God in a manner that is expressed by His Soul. To we who are souls. Jesus "interprets" God who is foreign to our comprehension, and makes God knowable in terms and actions we can relate to!

Here is where it says that is so...

John 1:18...

First I will give a standard translation. Then I will give another that brings out what the Greek is telling the Greek reader. I learned this from a pastor who taught from the Greek text. He said that the Greek word used for the function of Jesus is the same Greek word used in relation to pastors when they are commanded to "exegete" the Word of God for their flock.




Here is a standard translation of John 1:18.

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son,
who is himself God and is in closest relationship with
the Father, has made him known.​

And, here is a closer rendering of the actual intent of the Greek text

No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son,
who is himself God and is in closest relationship with
the Father, has declared Him [He has revealed Him
and brought Him out where He can be seen; He
has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].
​

That tells us? Without Jesus? We could have no Word of God to be discussing right now. For the Word of God was written for human consumption. Written with words that human souls can relate to! Jesus being both Soul and God can perfectly understand and make God known to us on our level of comprehension.

 

[By His Mercy]

Welcome back everyone.

Christians are frustrated. Of all the peoples on the earth, they would think that the Jews, to whom God has entrusted the oracles, would accept Jesus as the Messiah. But no. Jewish converts have been ultra few. By and large, more than any other people, Jews have been immune to the gospel. Why? I hope that this post will answer that question.

1. God is ECHAD, one, not three in one. Christianity teaches Trinitarianism, which although it is monotheism, is a muddied monotheism. Judaism on the other hand teaches a pure and simple monotheism. Anything that comprises the oneness of God is unthinkable.
2. God is not a man. This is the nature of God, and the nature of God is unchanging. It is stated three times in the Tanakh: twice in Numbers 23:19, and a third time in Job 9:32. For something to be reiterated three times -- it must be of great importance. Christianity on the other hand, claims that Jesus is "fully God and fully man," at least in the orthodox version. The two are absolutely incompatible. Christians try to claim that "let us create man in our own image" is a reference to the triune nature of God, but in reality it is God talking to the heavenly court. Similarly, the claims of Elohim being a plural are moot -- it is more similar to the royal "we" used by the Queen.
3. The New Testament contradicts the teachings of the Tanakh/Torah. The Torah clearly teaches the following of the Law, in order to receive the blessings of prosperity and the land of Canaan. Psalm 19 states that the Law is "perfect....sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb." Yet Paul teaches that the Law brings a curse. He teaches that circumcision is nothing and keeping the Sabbath is up to the individual, rather than being necessary for the Jew. These views, that of the Tanakh and those of Paul, are utterly incompatible. The Torah is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews to be the word of God, and is therefore the measuring reed to determine what else is orthodoxy -- and it therefore determines that the NT doesn't pass muster
4. The New Testament quotes prophecy out of context (i.e. Hosea 11:1, which is about Israel, not the messiah), misquotes prophecy (i.e. Isaiah 7:14 which is rightly translated young maiden, not virgin), and even makes up prophecy out of whole cloth (such as Matthew 2:23, He shall be called a Nazarene aka someone from the city of Nazareth.)
5. Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he simply did not fulfill messianic prophecy. It makes no sense to say, "He will fulfill the rest when he comes back again." After all, anyone can claim to be the messiah and say they will fulfill the prophecies the next time around. The only way we have of determining the messiah is if they fulfill the messianic claims, all of them, and quite frankly Jesus did not; thus he failed in his attempt to be the messiah. Here are just three examples:
   • The Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will bring ALL Jews back to the Land of Israel. Jesus did not.​

Hi Open Heart,

We hold Jesus as God's provision for sin - His blood is able to cover our sin. The Jews used to have animal sacrifices...Leviticus 4...their sins were forgiven at that time. But now you don't have the animal sacrifices, right? So would you think Leviticus 4 is wrong? Or perhaps sins were once covered by blood, and then that requirement went away? If so, how, when?

-BHM

 

[GeneZ]

Welcome back everyone.

Christians are frustrated. Of all the peoples on the earth, they would think that the Jews, to whom God has entrusted the oracles, would accept Jesus as the Messiah. But no. Jewish converts have been ultra few. By and large, more than any other people, Jews have been immune to the gospel. Why? I hope that this post will answer that question.

1. God is ECHAD, one, not three in one. Christianity teaches Trinitarianism, which although it is monotheism, is a muddied monotheism. Judaism on the other hand teaches a pure and simple monotheism. Anything that comprises the oneness of God is unthinkable.
2. God is not a man. This is the nature of God, and the nature of God is unchanging. It is stated three times in the Tanakh: twice in Numbers 23:19, and a third time in Job 9:32. For something to be reiterated three times -- it must be of great importance. Christianity on the other hand, claims that Jesus is "fully God and fully man," at least in the orthodox version. The two are absolutely incompatible. Christians try to claim that "let us create man in our own image" is a reference to the triune nature of God, but in reality it is God talking to the heavenly court. Similarly, the claims of Elohim being a plural are moot -- it is more similar to the royal "we" used by the Queen.
3. The New Testament contradicts the teachings of the Tanakh/Torah. The Torah clearly teaches the following of the Law, in order to receive the blessings of prosperity and the land of Canaan. Psalm 19 states that the Law is "perfect....sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb." Yet Paul teaches that the Law brings a curse. He teaches that circumcision is nothing and keeping the Sabbath is up to the individual, rather than being necessary for the Jew. These views, that of the Tanakh and those of Paul, are utterly incompatible. The Torah is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews to be the word of God, and is therefore the measuring reed to determine what else is orthodoxy -- and it therefore determines that the NT doesn't pass muster
4. The New Testament quotes prophecy out of context (i.e. Hosea 11:1, which is about Israel, not the messiah), misquotes prophecy (i.e. Isaiah 7:14 which is rightly translated young maiden, not virgin), and even makes up prophecy out of whole cloth (such as Matthew 2:23, He shall be called a Nazarene aka someone from the city of Nazareth.)
5. Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he simply did not fulfill messianic prophecy. It makes no sense to say, "He will fulfill the rest when he comes back again." After all, anyone can claim to be the messiah and say they will fulfill the prophecies the next time around. The only way we have of determining the messiah is if they fulfill the messianic claims, all of them, and quite frankly Jesus did not; thus he failed in his attempt to be the messiah. Here are just three examples:
   • The Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will bring ALL Jews back to the Land of Israel. Jesus did not.​

We're frustrated? Jews who claim to follow the Torah religiously must put their heads in the sand when they read Leviticus 17:11.


We're frustrated? Jews have been living with unforgiven sins for over 2000 years!


"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement
for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul." Leviticus 17:11

In 70 AD the Temple and its altar ceased to exist when the city of Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome!

God did not provide for the sins of Jews anymore?

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2

If Jesus on the Cross was not the final atonement? If the blood of Jesus was not the anti-type for the animal sacrifices? Then God has thrown away all Jews by allowing the Temple to be destroyed and having them die in their sins.

You want to die in your sins? Go ahead. Make sense.

 

[Open Heart]

It’s about souls, not physical body races.

Hebrew souls = souls from adam.

Hi eve. Happy Thanksgiving.

Because God gave his oracles to the Jews, the fact that most Jews have adamantly rejected your gospel message for 2000 years rather discredits Christianity.

 

[GeneZ]

It’s about souls, not physical body races.

Hebrew souls = souls from adam.

No souls came from Adam. God creates our souls. That is why he is our Father!

The parents only create the body for the soul, not the soul. Our bodies have been crucified with Christ.

 

[Open Heart]

We're frustrated? Jews who claim to follow the Torah religiously must put their heads in the sand when they read Leviticus 17:11.


We're frustrated? Jews have been living with unforgiven sins for over 2000 years!


"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement
for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul." Leviticus 17:11

In 70 AD the Temple and its altar ceased to exist when the city of Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome!

God did not provide for the sins of Jews anymore?

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2

If Jesus on the Cross was not the final atonement? If the blood of Jesus was not the anti-type for the animal sacrifices? Then God has thrown away all Jews by allowing the Temple to be destroyed and having them die in their sins.

You want to die in your sins? Go ahead. Make sense.

Gene if you were raised Jewish, you should know better than to try these arguments with me. They roll off my back. Especially quoting the NT. You more than most know that we do not consider it God's word.

Blood atonement was the ideal for unintentional sins. But grain offerings were always accepted in lieu for those who were too poor. Furthermore, we have the instance of Aaron making atonement with incense alone.

What to do without a temple? You know this isn't the first time. In Babylon we had no temple. Daniel did not make offerings. But Hosea said, "The words of our lips (prayers) shall be as bullocks (sacrifices). So it may not be the ideal, but we function perfectly okay without the temple and atonement sacrifices.

Remember when Nathan confronted David over his sins? David said, "I have sinned!" and Nathan replied, "You sin is forgiven." Nathan did NOT say, "Hurry, lets get to the tabernacle so you can make an atonement offering. Repentance alone is enough.

When I sin, intentionally or unintentionally, I first try to go to the one I wronged and correct things with them. Then I go to God in prayer, confess it to him, express my remorse, and commit to return to his ways. That works just fine.

So, my friend, you argument that Jews have been living in sin for 2000 years without the temple is utterly false.

 

[Open Heart]

Hi Open Heart,

We hold Jesus as God's provision for sin - His blood is able to cover our sin. The Jews used to have animal sacrifices...Leviticus 4...their sins were forgiven at that time. But now you don't have the animal sacrifices, right? So would you think Leviticus 4 is wrong? Or perhaps sins were once covered by blood, and then that requirement went away? If so, how, when?

-BHM

It's not that Lev 4:11 is wrong. It's that it is and IDEAL. The world is worse off for lack of them temple, but we function okay without it. Hosea 14:2 states "the words of our lips (prayer) shall be as bullocks (sacrifices). This is how i.e. Daniel was able to stay righteous during the Babylonian captivity when there was no temple. When I sin, I go to God and repent and return to his ways. That's not ideal, but it is certainly sufficient.

 

[Open Heart]

You do not know what you are talking about. Of course God is a Trinity.

Because you can not see it does not mean it is not a reality.

And just because you say it, doesn't make it true.

No one can see God. The Father is God with only one nature. No one can see God.

What is needed? Is a means for making God seeable.

I have no need to see God. It is not a need.

Again, as Jew, you should know better than to quote the New Testament to me. It has no effect whatsoever. It is no different to me than the Vedas or the Book of Mormon or the Quran.

 

[Open Heart]

it’s not a feast mentioned in the tanakh... i don’t celebrate it. thanks. no canaanite holidays here.

Wow. A life committed to avoid times of Joy. I think God will ask you why you avoided it. Since when has it been wrong to set aside a special time to give thanks to God?

 

[GeneZ]

Gene if you were raised Jewish, you should know better than to try these arguments with me. They roll off my back. Especially quoting the NT. You more than most know that we do not consider it God's word.

Blood atonement was the ideal for unintentional sins. But grain offerings were always accepted in lieu for those who were too poor. Furthermore, we have the instance of Aaron making atonement with incense alone.

What to do without a temple? You know this isn't the first time. In Babylon we had no temple. Daniel did not make offerings. But Hosea said, "The words of our lips (prayers) shall be as bullocks (sacrifices). So it may not be the ideal, but we function perfectly okay without the temple and atonement sacrifices.

Remember when Nathan confronted David over his sins? David said, "I have sinned!" and Nathan replied, "You sin is forgiven." Nathan did NOT say, "Hurry, lets get to the tabernacle so you can make an atonement offering. Repentance alone is enough.

When I sin, intentionally or unintentionally, I first try to go to the one I wronged and correct things with them. Then I go to God in prayer, confess it to him, express my remorse, and commit to return to his ways. That works just fine.

So, my friend, you argument that Jews have been living in sin for 2000 years without the temple is utterly false.

I am not trying any arguments with you. I am exposing you by what I say for others who know God.

And, your rendition of reasoning is Scriptural fantasy. Grain offerings can not be offered today. For, where's that needed altar and the Levitcal priest to accept and present your offering? Leviticus 2:1 ff.

The other Jews you mentioned were all under God's judgment and punishment.

With David and Nathan, the Lord killed David's infant son for his sin... Later on it says that David went to the house of worship after he stopped fasting and praying for his dying son.


Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed
his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his
own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate." 2 Samuel 12:20

God's Word rolls off your back? That's just how the Pharisees treated Jesus.

 

[By His Mercy]

It's not that Lev 4:11 is wrong. It's that it is and IDEAL. The world is worse off for lack of them temple, but we function okay without it. Hosea 14:2 states "the words of our lips (prayer) shall be as bullocks (sacrifices). This is how i.e. Daniel was able to stay righteous during the Babylonian captivity when there was no temple. When I sin, I go to God and repent and return to his ways. That's not ideal, but it is certainly sufficient.

Thank you for your answer!

-BHM

 

[Open Heart]

I am not trying any arguments with you. I am exposing you by what I say for others who know God.

You should try to do so in an effective way, so that you are not just spinning your wheels.

And, your rendition of reasoning is Scriptural fantasy. Grain offerings can not be offered today. For, where's that needed altar and the Levitcal priest to accept and present your offering? Leviticus 2:1 ff.

But it is critical to knowing the boundaries of blood sacrifice, and how God still forgives without it.

The other Jews you mentioned were all under God's judgment and punishment.

So you think Daniel will go to hell?

With David and Nathan, the Lord killed David's infant son for his sin... Later on it says that David went to the house of worship after he stopped fasting and praying for his dying son.


Then David got up from the ground. After he had washed, put on lotions and changed
his clothes, he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he went to his
own house, and at his request they served him food, and he ate." 2 Samuel 12:20

God's Word rolls off your back? That's just how the Pharisees treated Jesus.

I don't know what your point is. This all seems irrelevant to the conversation.

 

[Open Heart]

where in his scripture does God set thanksgiving day on His calendar or say it is His?

He doesn't need to. He approves of us setting aside special times just to give him thanks.

 

[Open Heart]

so where does He say i have to celebrate a day some others decided to set aside?

He did not.

You don't have to. But it is just weird that you would miss an opportunity to thank God, especially with others.

 

[rakovsky]

I met Him and I met Christ. Don’t care what religions today (as they are now) reject Christ. He took me to Genesis and I was there and Christ was there.

It sounds like you had a nice experience. I welcome you to share it. You can share it by PM if you want.

 

[GeneZ]

You should try to do so in an effective way, so that you are not just spinning your wheels.

I would be spinning my wheels only if I believed the truth is irresistible. I believed. The Holy Spirit entered me. Why am I better than you when its God who draws Jews to Christ? You're making your choice.

Did God slap Adam's hand and make him put down the fruit? What about the woman?


Could be I will be brought forth... with other Jews who found Christ in our generation to be seen by you... And, will the Lord will ask you? What happened? Why did you reject?


They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know?
How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” “Stop grumbling among yourselves,”
Jesus answered. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,
and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be
taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. John 6:42-47


That was written by a Jew who came to Christ.

grace and peace......