If true then there are no buts...Abraham was not under Moses' law..
Why Jews will never accept Jesus
- Thread starter Open Heart
- Start date
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
It sure is.
No, its application of the law. And they got the right.
Nope. Search on adoption and lineage and tell me what you find.
And a nation. Judaism is unlike any other religion. Read Isaiah 56:1-8.
Then what's his lineage? He ain't Israelite by your own definition. His daddy ain't an Israelite. So everyone in the Bible is an Israelite because God is their Father? Newbirth you're being ridiculous and you're in your little corner again.
Nope.
Sorry. Jesus ain't a biological Israelite. By your own definition.
Nope. Adam had a sinful X and Y. That's your dilemma.
Yep, you've been debunked. I gave you the link and even highlighted for you.
You haven't given me a definition. It shouldn't be too hard.
Where is the fact written that Jewish law states that conversion adopts into the Jewish people makes that person a Jew by lineage which is the crux of your argument?
well show where it is stated...
Therefore they are Jews by lineage
because they are descendants of the tribes of Israel
because they are descendants of Israel
Yep glad you understand that
Yes the covenant was given to the children of Israel.
Was her husband a Jew of one of the tribes of Israel? If he was then she married into the tribe and if she had children they would be Jews descendants of Israel.
Therefore Bathsheba was not a Jew but a Maachathite. So Solomon's mother was not a Jew.
In which case, marriage to another Jew does not make her a Jew either.
And somehow because you say that, you think it makes sense? What is the ritual that makes a gentile woman a Jew?
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
What makes Jesus a Jew since his father, according to you, wasn't an Israelite? And there is zero genealogy about his mother. Let's see if your consistent.
BTW, the lineage of King David proves Ruth is a Jew by lineage. It's in the Tanakh. It's also in Esther 8:17 that people converting become Jews.
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show in the law where God says to add precepts to the law
application is not adding precepts
you should be stating what I said wrong...lineage is direct descendant sir, you cannot adopt direct descendance
adoption does not change your descendants' sir ...the eunuch is still a eunuch and the stranger is still a stranger... even though they love the Lord and obey his commands
His Father is God the father of Israel
what do you suppose lineage means sir?
by your definition sir not mine
No, it is your dilemma, because it is your claim...
The scripture debunked you... Samaritans are not Jews ...
use yours why are you afraid...is your God not righteous?
his mother was and his Father is the father of all Israelites
there is none about yours either
no, it does not...It proves that she was a Moabite woman...Moabites are not Jews...Bathsheba was not a Jew either
They become Jews by practising the religion...not by becoming descendants if Israel...If they do not continue practising they are no longer Jews.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
You've been given the verses. Even God added after Sinai.
It's extending the application.
No, that's your definition. I've shown there's another.
He's added to the people.
Doesn't matter. He ain't an Israelite. Everyone's a Jew by your definition.
Then Abraham and everyone else is Jewish too?
I told you already.
Nope, its crystal clear yours is wrong.
Nope. It's biology and genetics that has proven you wrong. Shall I give you the link again?
They descended from the Northern tribes, became mixed.
That's not a definition. What are you afraid of?
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Jewjitzu
Well-known member
No. There's no lineage for Mary. So you're saying everyone is Jewish because God is their Father? Where does it say God gave Jesus Israelite male genes?
Why are you being inconsistent newbirth?
Then everyone's Jewish because that makes it easier for you?
They're in the Davidic lineage.
Nope, it says they became Jews. The scriptures debunk you yet again.
the verses you gave does not say that sir
extending is adding sir, you are not to add to the law
that is the dictionary definition sir... and you have not shown another...https://www.google.com/search?q=lin...9j0j46j0l4.5329j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
those are not added through descendant/lineage sir...
nope that is your misunderstanding of what I said
Nope...
nope
Yet you cannot show me how...
you don't even understand the link you posted
no sir they were taken from Samaria...
2 Kings 17:6
In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
and replaced by..
2 Kings 17:24
And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.
not afraid of anything ...you want to play word games..so make up your own words...Is God Holy? Yes or No? Does the blood make an atonement for your soul yes or No?
Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Leviticus 11:45
For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
You cannot play the where does it say game with me ... Where does it say there is no lineage for Mary
your understanding is sir
nope according to your understanding, everyone is Jewish ...
There is no tribe of David sir.. your nonsense is becoming boring...
they did not become Jews by lineage they converted...
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Do you want me to show where God added to the laws after Sinai? If He did, he gave the authority to the judges to do as well.
No. It's called application of the law to a new instance. Such as the laws of inheritance were applied to new cases where there were no male inheritors.
"An adopted child is a descendant of the adopting parent for purposes of inheritance from the adopting parent and from the lineal and collateral kindred of the adopting parent and for the purpose of determining the property rights of any person under any instrument,"
See above. And Jewish law says so.
Then Jesus isn't an israelite. God is not Jewish.
How's it different than God making Jesus Jewish? You have no proof of Israelite seed for Jesus.
For what?
Just did
I understands it shows the samaritans were a mixed-blooded group from the Northern tribes. So was the woman from John 4.
Yep, and the link I gave you shows they were in Samaria after your verses. That's why I highlighted them for you.
God is Holy. Yes. The blood makes atonement, Yes. Show where the blood is holy.
Yep, show where Jesus' blood went on the altar as per the commandment.
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Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Point it out in the NT.
Where does it say God is an Israelite? Where does it say that Jesus had a physical biological Israelite father? Did Mary have X Chromosomes that she passed to Jesus?
Where is Mary's lineage?
Then show where Jesus gets his paternal Israelite genes? Proof from scripture, please.
I said lineage, not tribe. Do you know the difference? Do you need the lineage in Ruth 4?
The Hebrew says they became Jews. So does Jewish law.
Open Heart
Well-known member
The fact that you don't like it and don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've documented my point using two different tribes.
Open Heart
Well-known member
The term Ger Toshav is used a handful of times in the Torah, and seems to mean slightly different things depending on context. It is usually translated resident alien, but what exactly does that mean? The problem is with the word Ger, because the word Ger also means convert.
In Exodus 12, the context of who may eat of the Passover sacrifice. Verse 43 is quite clear that no foreigner may eat it. Verse 45 states that no Ger Toshav may eat of it--here the context is plainly that no Gentile who is a temporary resident may eat of it. But then it goes on to say in verse 48, “A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it." IOW if the Gentile CONVERTS, taking upon themselves and their family the covenant, THEN they can eat of it. This is then followed up by verse 49 that there shall be one law for the native born and the Ger Toshav. Here in verse 49 it is more than obvious that Ger Toshav is referring to those in verse 48, those who converted and became Jews, and not to the ones in verse 45, who definitely are prohibited from eating the sacrifice.
Why don't you tell me what this means. Pretend I'm stupid.
Open Heart
Well-known member
Sorry, but HOW you obey a Law is NOT the same as adding a law. I'm not sure why you can't understand this.
Deuteronomy 12:21 If the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to put His name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat within thy gates, after all the desire of thy soul.
How did God command us? It is not in the Torah. It is in the Oral Torah.
Open Heart
Well-known member
I stand by what I said.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
It's the same issue with him and biology and the idea of passing on Adam's sin genetically to Mary. He thinks in his mind that Adam only passes a Y chromosome to males and nothing to females.
He can't accept in his idea that Mary inherited Adam's X, passes it to Jesus, and the rest is just an ideological mess for him.
Open Heart
Well-known member
I am assuming that you want the references from the Oral Torah where this is found? I am not well versed enough to know. I will leave this up to those who are better studied than I am. @Jewjitzu @Harel13 and any other Jew posting in here.
Or converts
In the day of Ruth, there was no word for religion. You will find no mention of religion in the Torah. Israel was simply a People, a Nation, which had covenantal obligations. Basically you became naturalized as an Israelite, and by doing so, you simultaneously took on the covenantal obligations. When Ruth said, "Let your people be my people," that was her expression of her desire to naturalize.
Open Heart
Well-known member
That's just weird.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
That's their justification, or his, for why they see the need for a virgin birth. As if Mary was incapable of sinning.