Ton of man-made, unbiblical doctrines

Bonnie said:
About what, and where?
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You can start with what has already been posted.

26 We begin our profession of faith by saying: "I believe" or "We believe". Before expounding the Church's faith, as confessed in the Creed, celebrated in the liturgy and lived in observance of God's commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what "to believe" means. Faith is man's response to God, who reveals himself and gives himself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Thus we shall consider first that search (Chapter One), then the divine Revelation by which God comes to meet man (Chapter Two), and finally the response of faith (Chapter Three).

153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come "from flesh and blood", but from "my Father who is in heaven".24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"25
 
dingoling. said:
Those are not the actual words of scripture. When someone says, "scripture says" I am looking for the actual words of scripture.

So you are agreeing with the teachings of the Catholic Church on what was posted from the CCC?
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If you think I agree with the catechism, it shows a clear reading comprehension concern. Post 9 I did not say scripture says, stop misrepresenting my posts, I said:

Major mistake faith is a gift from God. Eph 2:8+ It is a gift from God nothing more, nothing less. It is not man's response to God at all. John 6:44, 1 Cor 1:26-29, John 6:29 and there are many more verses which show it is a gift from God.


You responded with post 17:

yes, those verses don't say the faith is a free gift.

So I have asked as well as others, do we have to pay for this gift and other such questions? What is the cost etc?

Scripture certainly does not say we have to pay for a gift.

My response post 18:

Really so God charges us for faith, so it is a gift we have to purchase?

Eph 2:8+

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 6:44

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

1 Cor 1:26-29

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.

John 6:29

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

So it is a gift, it is God's work, God chooses, the father draws them nothing about paying for it
 
balshan said:
If you think I agree with the catechism, it shows a clear reading comprehension concern. Post 9 I did not say scripture says, stop misrepresenting my posts, I said:

Major mistake faith is a gift from God. Eph 2:8+ It is a gift from God nothing more, nothing less. It is not man's response to God at all. John 6:44, 1 Cor 1:26-29, John 6:29 and there are many more verses which show it is a gift from God.


You responded with post 17:

yes, those verses don't say the faith is a free gift.

So I have asked as well as others, do we have to pay for this gift and other such questions? What is the cost etc?

Scripture certainly does not say we have to pay for a gift.

My response post 18:

Really so God charges us for faith, so it is a gift we have to purchase?

Eph 2:8+

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 6:44

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

1 Cor 1:26-29

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.

John 6:29

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

So it is a gift, it is God's work, God chooses, the father draws them nothing about paying for it
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But that is what the CCC says, "Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him."
 
balshan said:
No we do not because it goes from one false claim to another false claim. The quote I posted was near the front which means that it is a false building stone. We do nothing to receive faith at all it is not man's response at all. That view is not scriptural at all.
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I don't see how the CCC that was posted is not scriptural. How is this statement not scriptural:

Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"
 
dingoling. said:
I don't see how the CCC that was posted is not scriptural. How is this statement not scriptural:

Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and 'makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.'"
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No surprise you are blind to the truth of what was posted in post 9. Your are diverting from the whole quote in post 9. Not all of it is it? We are not fooled by your attempt to cover up the truth. From post 9:

Here is one example from Part 1 section 1

26 We begin our profession of faith by saying: "I believe" or "We believe". Before expounding the Church's faith, as confessed in the Creed, celebrated in the liturgy and lived in observance of God's commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what "to believe" means. Faith is man's response to God, who reveals himself and gives himself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Thus we shall consider first that search (Chapter One), then the divine Revelation by which God comes to meet man (Chapter Two), and finally the response of faith (Chapter Three).

Major mistake faith is a gift from God. Eph 2:8+ It is a gift from God nothing more, nothing less. It is not man's response to God at all. John 6:44, 1 Cor 1:26-29, John 6:29 and there are many more verses which show it is a gift from God.
 
balshan said:
No surprise you are blind to the truth of what was posted in post 9. Your are diverting from the whole quote in post 9. Not all of it is it? We are not fooled by your attempt to cover up the truth. From post 9:

Here is one example from Part 1 section 1

26 We begin our profession of faith by saying: "I believe" or "We believe". Before expounding the Church's faith, as confessed in the Creed, celebrated in the liturgy and lived in observance of God's commandments and in prayer, we must first ask what "to believe" means. Faith is man's response to God, who reveals himself and gives himself to man, at the same time bringing man a superabundant light as he searches for the ultimate meaning of his life. Thus we shall consider first that search (Chapter One), then the divine Revelation by which God comes to meet man (Chapter Two), and finally the response of faith (Chapter Three).

Major mistake faith is a gift from God. Eph 2:8+ It is a gift from God nothing more, nothing less. It is not man's response to God at all. John 6:44, 1 Cor 1:26-29, John 6:29 and there are many more verses which show it is a gift from God.
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Yes, and then CCC explains more thoroughly how that response works latter on - it is a gift from God. It lines up completely with scripture.
 
dingoling. said:
How is that different from scripture? Scripture appears to contradict itself, even though it doesn't, but it takes some effort to understand what it is really saying.
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What rubbish. It is very different to scripture. Scripture does not appear to contradict itself but the catechism is promoting man's works, man's responses, Mary's work and denying God's gift. Putting a line in every now and then does not cover up the false teachings found in the catechism. It shows there is so much of the RCC built on the foundations of false teachings.

By the way I posted exactly where in the catechism my quote came from, what section is your quote from????
 
balshan said:
What rubbish. It is very different to scripture. Scripture does not appear to contradict itself but the catechism is promoting man's works, man's responses, Mary's work and denying God's gift. Putting a line in every now and then does not cover up the false teachings found in the catechism. It shows there is so much of the RCC built on the foundations of false teachings.

By the way I posted exactly where in the catechism my quote came from, what section is your quote from????
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It is right there with my quote - 153.
 
dingoling. said:
It is right there with my quote - 153.
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I did not see it in post 47.

But it is followed by Faith is a human act

154 - Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason. Even in human relations it is not contrary to our dignity to believe what other persons tell us about themselves and their intentions, or to trust their promises (for example, when a man and a woman marry) to share a communion of life with one another. If this is so, still less is it contrary to our dignity to "yield by faith the full submission of. . . intellect and will to God who reveals", and to share in an interior communion with him.
 
balshan said:
I did not see it in post 47.

But it is followed by Faith is a human act

154 - Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason. Even in human relations it is not contrary to our dignity to believe what other persons tell us about themselves and their intentions, or to trust their promises (for example, when a man and a woman marry) to share a communion of life with one another. If this is so, still less is it contrary to our dignity to "yield by faith the full submission of. . . intellect and will to God who reveals", and to share in an interior communion with him.
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So, when you read the Bible you don't see justification by faith alone and not by works.
 
balshan said:
If you think I agree with the catechism, it shows a clear reading comprehension concern. Post 9 I did not say scripture says, stop misrepresenting my posts, I said:

Major mistake faith is a gift from God. Eph 2:8+ It is a gift from God nothing more, nothing less. It is not man's response to God at all. John 6:44, 1 Cor 1:26-29, John 6:29 and there are many more verses which show it is a gift from God.


You responded with post 17:

yes, those verses don't say the faith is a free gift.

So I have asked as well as others, do we have to pay for this gift and other such questions? What is the cost etc?

Scripture certainly does not say we have to pay for a gift.

My response post 18:

Really so God charges us for faith, so it is a gift we have to purchase?

Eph 2:8+

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 6:44

44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

1 Cor 1:26-29

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.

John 6:29

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

So it is a gift, it is God's work, God chooses, the father draws them nothing about paying for it
Click to expand...

Don't misrepresent the teachings of the CC. The CCC says that faith is a gift so please stop accusing us otherwise.
 
dingoling. said:
So, when you read the Bible you don't see justification by faith alone and not by works.
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I see justification tht is imputed and it is not by works. It is you who has said otherwise, it is you who says faith plus and are never clear on the plus. Stop twisting my posts. You are the one trying to cover up that you think it is not a free gift.
 
balshan said:
I see justification tht is imputed and it is not by works. It is you who has said otherwise, it is you who says faith plus and are never clear on the plus. Stop twisting my posts. You are the one trying to cover up that you think it is not a free gift.
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I didn't say that faith was not a gift. I said scripture doesn't say that. The Catholic Church teaches that it is a gift.
 
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