preacher4truth
Well-known member
It's a done deal, it all took place some 2000 years ago. Jesus finished the work, and saved all His elect. Now these saved will experience their salvation in time.
Did Jesus save His people from their sins?
- Thread starter eternomade
- Start date
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Unbelief is a sin right? Why is He condemning them for a sin He saved them from?
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preacher4truth
Well-known member
That's exactly true, they are the elect, predestined, chosen, His people &c. That's what God has revealed to his people, that is what He calls them; note 1 Corinthians 1:26-31.
This has always bothered you, just as it has bothered the man in Romans 9:19-21.
Not sure why God and His ways revealed bother you, but you may want to check in there for a while and get that thing fixed.
There is no irony, you're exaggerating upon what he said and trying to find a quarrel.
We don't have a list, as in names, which is what @Howie meant, but we know what He has revealed to us about it in the word.
He chose them in Christ prior to the foundation of the world; Ephesians 1:4. Paul knew this well, Acts 18:9-10; 2 Timothy 2:8-10, and this fact of election drove him to preach even when attacked. He knew Jesus had already paid for His sheep, and he set out to gather them into the fold.
eternomade
Well-known member
It's the offence of the cross. From one lump of clay, God has purposed some as vessels for mercy, and some for wrath. It's a hard saying, even for me, but the Scriptures declare this truth in so many ways:
Darkness - Light
Adam - Christ
Flesh - Spirit
Esau - Jacob
Cain - Abel
Sinai - Zion
Hagar - Rebekah
Wrath - Mercy
The natural man complains that God is God and that nothing happens outside of His purpose.
Theophilus
Well-known member
It’s a false deal and false teaching . His death did not save anyone His life , resurrection saves one from sin. His death only reconciled which means an exchange was made. The Bible teaches this here in Roman’s. It’s faith alone that saves in Christ nothing else that is humanism and false teaching .
Romans 5:10
For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Yep, like I say, people are offended that God is God, and lots of them post as professing believers here. They can't free will themselves out of that dilemma nor into eternal life as they think they can.
eternomade
Well-known member
Where do you see this? In the OT, the High Priest coming out of the temple alive did not signify that the sins were atoned for when he came out, but when the blood was shed. The Priest coming out alive signified that God accepted the offering. That is why Christ was raised again for our justification. You are denying the Gospel by saying that Christ did not save anyone from sin by His death.
Isaiah 53
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Phillipians 2
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
eternomade
Well-known member
His life is His obedience unto death. His obedience is my obedience.
Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Theophilus
Well-known member
Read Romans 5:10 again . Saved by His life not His death .
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled, will we be saved by his life
eternomade
Well-known member
But you said we are saved by the resurrection, or faith, not sure which.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
He said we're Saved by Christ's Life, NOT his Death. By saying this, he leaves room for you to say we're Saved by his Death, NOT through Faith. Disqualifying one point as he did, such as Christ's Death; sets a precedent for any element that Saves us; to be rejected...
I would say we're Saved by all these, and more; we're Saved by Grace too...
Theophilus
Well-known member
You write gospel tracts. Why does the gospel have power ? Is it because Jesus died or because He lives and conquered death through the Resurrection? Why does Paul say the gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who believe ? No one is saved apart from belief . No one was saved 2000 years ago because Jesus died . We are saved by His life Paul said in Roman’s 5:10 and 1 Corinthians 15. If Christ is not raised from the dead you are still dead in your sins. Why as a gospel tract author would you neglect this and say we are saved by His death ?
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ReverendRV
Well-known member
The Gospel has Power because it is God Breaved Scripture...
In Romans 5:10, “saved by His life” is speaking of the resurrection.
Theophilus
Well-known member
You did not answer any of my questions about the gospel . Is this how you respond to unbelievers and explain the gospel to them when they ask you ReverendRV?
Theophilus
Well-known member
Exactly
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Yes, I did answer your question...
If you want to keep talking, act like it...
If you don't want to talk to me, just Flame me...
Theophilus
Well-known member
1 Corinthians 15 we read Paul explaining it’s His life, resurrection ( Roman’s 5:10) that saved us from sin and faith in the Resurrection that makes our faith real or our faith is dead and we are still dead in our sins.
1 Corinthians 15:13-22. If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive
eternomade
Well-known member
Yes, culminating in his death, the blood shed. I believe Jesus whole life was obedient to the Law and His Father, both in precept and spirit. But His death is what saved sinners. They might not find out about it for a long time, but it still happened on the cross.
Leviticus 17
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
eternomade
Well-known member
I don't see it this way. The context of Romans 5 is Adams disobedience and Christs obedience. This leads into verse 10. Union, substitution and representation. How does this have to do with the resurrection? Paul had already discussed the reason for the resurrection in the end of Romans 4.