DEBATE: Is prayer to Mary & the saints worship?

[dingoling.]

Now if this was true we would not be having this conversation. You take mans word over Gods Word. The enemy of God has deceived you.

The nCCs do the same thing - the take mans word over God's word.

 

[1Thess521]

I have already worked through scripture.

then please provide a scriptural response when your claims are challenged
instead of stating again and again we are not the authority

Can you do that?

 

[1Thess521]

The nCCs do the same thing - the take mans word over God's word.

Do you accept any teachings as true that you believe are false?


Therefore you place your beliefs over your Church's words!

your epistemology arguments are a dead end

 

[balshan]

The nCCs do the same thing - the take mans word over God's word.

That is a false claim once again without any evidence. We do not have to obey a pope and His cronies ex cathedra.

 

[balshan]

Do we have the authority to search the scriptures for ourselves and interpret them?

Bonnie (a real believer) has so much more than your pope and his cronies who are evil and have no authority whatsoever. You sprouting off about the need for some authority is just rubbish, as you can never prove they have any authority whatsoever. Evil leaders have no authority.

 

[pilgrim]

They become idols to those who pray to them.

No they don't.

 

[balshan]

Do we have the authority to search the scriptures for ourselves and interpret them?

Bonnie (a real believer) has so much more than your pope and his cronies who are evil and have no authority whatsoever. You sprouting off about the need for some authority is just rubbish, as you can never prove they have any authority whatsoever. Evil leaders have no authority.

sorry I don't know why this repeated. It has happened a few times I noticed I posted and then there is another one which looks like I haven't posted. I went and this one showed up and I thought I must not have posted it. Sorry.

 

[balshan]

No they don't.

Yes they do, because you treat them the same as God. You pray to them, light candles before their statues. How is it different?

 

[pilgrim]

Bonnie (a real believer) has so much more than your pope and his cronies who are evil and have no authority whatsoever. You sprouting off about the need for some authority is just rubbish, as you can never prove they have any authority whatsoever. Evil leaders have no authority.

sorry I don't know why this repeated. It has happened a few times I noticed I posted and then there is another one which looks like I haven't posted. I went and this one showed up and I thought I must not have posted it. Sorry.

Bonnie the "real believer" believes in the Real Presence.
Oh, and she believes that baptism is salvific.
Can we believe in that too then?

 

[Bonnie]

Do we have the authority to search the scriptures for ourselves and interpret them?

Did the Bereans?

 

[Bonnie]

Bonnie the "real believer" believes in the Real Presence.

But not the same way the RCC does.

Oh, and she believes that baptism is salvific.

Yes, but also that it is not absolutely necessary for salvation, if the person has faith but is unable to get baptized before death, or is prevented from doing so.

Can we believe in that too then?

Sure--but you would need to believe as I do.

Now, this forum is not about me and what I believe, or my church. It is about the RCC and its teachings. Let's get back to that, shall we?

 

[Bonnie]

My argument is that when Catholics use the term "prayer" they mean it more broadly.

That does not make it true.

They do not mean it in the narrow sense that Scripture uses the term.

Oh, that explains it...once again, you prefer your church's usage and meaning of a word, over how actual SCRIPTURE uses it...gotcha.

Regardless, where does Scripture tell us that Greek linguistic analysis is what determines the absolute meaning of a passage?

Words have meaning. We cannot just assign whatever meaning we like to Biblical words, to make them conform to what we want them to mean, rather than what they actually mean. That is patently dishonest.

 

[dingoling.]

Bonnie (a real believer) has so much more than your pope and his cronies who are evil and have no authority whatsoever. You sprouting off about the need for some authority is just rubbish, as you can never prove they have any authority whatsoever. Evil leaders have no authority.

sorry I don't know why this repeated. It has happened a few times I noticed I posted and then there is another one which looks like I haven't posted. I went and this one showed up and I thought I must not have posted it. Sorry.

I have authority to check scripture for myself and determine who is correct?

 

[pilgrim]

Yes they do, because you treat them the same as God.

No we don't.

You pray to them, light candles before their statues. How is it different?

There is nothing wrong with that. We and they are part of the Mystical Body of Christ. We pray with and for each other.

 

[balshan]

I have authority to check scripture for myself and determine who is correct?

Not according to what you have posted about the only authority being your bad tree. But you could become brave and do it yourself.

 

[balshan]

No we don't.



There is nothing wrong with that. We and they are part of the Mystical Body of Christ. We pray with and for each other.

prove you don't. What is wrong is it is against God's commandments to communicate with the dead. Prayer according to RCs is not worship but communicating.

I have asked and clearly asked what is the difference between what you do for God and for your saints. RCs seem unable to answer that question, is it because they themselves do not know how it is different?

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Words have meaning. We cannot just assign whatever meaning we like to Biblical words, to make them conform to what we want them to mean, rather than what they actually mean. That is patently dishonest.

I did not say "Words have no meaning" nor did I say "We can just assign words meaning."

I asked where Scripture teaches that the specific science of linguistic analysis teaches that this gives the absolute meaning of the passage.

Also, while we are on the subject, what happens when Greek scholars disagree on how a word should be rendered? What does Scripture teach about that?

 

[balshan]

I did not say "Words have no meaning" nor did I say "We can just assign words meaning."

I asked where Scripture teaches that the specific science of linguistic analysis teaches that this gives the absolute meaning of the passage.

Also, while we are on the subject, what happens when Greek scholars disagree on how a word should be rendered? What does Scripture teach about that?

You are just arguing for the sake of it. If you were being honest and not trying to be......you would not even have brought it up because you would use Greek meanings of words. I mean you have done theology courses.

This just shows that you cannot defend the false doctrines and beliefs of the RCC and have to resort to diverting and just plain stupid arguments.

 

[1Thess521]

I have authority to check scripture for myself and determine who is correct?

and the expectation is to defend your claims

 

[1Thess521]

I did not say "Words have no meaning" nor did I say "We can just assign words meaning."

I asked where Scripture teaches that the specific science of linguistic analysis teaches that this gives the absolute meaning of the passage.

Also, while we are on the subject, what happens when Greek scholars disagree on how a word should be rendered? What does Scripture teach about that?

it doesn't

what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?