Church of the Devil described by Mormons

[Richard7]

I have no idea what you believe, but I can tell you LDS doctrine demands personal salvation, not to be confused with general salvation, must be individually earn by , as the 3rd AoF reads, by obedience to the laws and ordinance of the gospel.

No I don’t, personal salvation is by pure merit, as taught by the church GA…unless you as a member that does not even have a TR, can trump the GA.

Why is the apostle in the post above wrong?

Pure merit by self? interesting doctrine. Where is that found in our Doctrine.... Does not grace factor in or is it only personal merit without Grace, obedience and covenant making? No thanks, not into a God that only chooses the Chosen... meaning doing nothing more then saved by grace alone. No obedience, no baptism, no covenants and no works.

 

[brotherofJared]

Salvation is following the Plan of Happiness or Plan of Salvation so we can be Exalted.

 

[brotherofJared]

Merit has noting to do with Living with God, merit is being worthy of Exaltation...

I believe merit is connected to obedience to the commandments which makes us worthy of salvation. Those who are saved by grace do so through faith, believing that keeping the commandments is essential to it. It's a doctrine that sits between a rock and a hard place called the Strait of Narrow Pass/Path.

 

[brotherofJared]

If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children ... D&C 14:7

faith is the path through which we obtain grace unto salvation. Proving it = merit. For all of us, it's a matter of reconciliation since none of us are perfect. Staying on the path through reconciliation is all God asks us to do. It's all we can do.

 

[Richard7]

faith is the path through which we obtain grace unto salvation. Proving it = merit. For all of us, it's a matter of reconciliation since none of us are perfect. Staying on the path through reconciliation is all God asks us to do. It's all we can do.

Markk is confusing merit with earned and works...

 

[dberrie2020]

It is called exaltation, general salvation is giving freely to all me by the atonement, and they will receive the resurrection of life according to LDS theology, but exaltation, or eternal life must be earned by merit and when archived…

Markk--the "resurrection of life" is eternal life, and it isn't given as a free gift, but is a grace which is extended to those who choose to follow Christ:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[dberrie2020]

No I don’t, personal salvation is by pure merit, as taught by the church GA…

Personal salvation is by God's grace--which goes to them which obey God:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

IOW--eternal life(God's grace), as a personal reception--is merited upon obedience to God.

Here is an example of that:

Acts 2:38--King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Here is an example of the particular definition of "merit"--which could be applied here:

merit--Merriam Webster​

1a praiseworthy quality : VIRTUE

: the qualities or actions that constitute the basis of one's deserts

 

[dberrie2020]

Hey Ralf,

It is “self righteousness,” not the righteousness of God. How may times, LOL even here, do we see someone do something or say something and we think…”what a self righteous you know what.” LOL…ever though of me that way? Our self righteousness for the very most part is a prideful and hypocritical by nature. A trying to get a one up on others righteousness. While Gods righteousness, is a perfect righteousness, without the motives our self righteousness demands. Is one based on pure Agape Love…only God has.

This is the Rightness that the Bible speaks of and why believers are clothed in His righteousness in that again, it is perfect and settles the demand of appeasement that God requires. God looks at a believer as a Jude’s would look at someone on trial, and declares a believer “not guilty” because He sees us through and in the Righteousness of Christ. Many of the words used in the NT are judicial words, and when we are set apart as Christian…we are “declared righteous.”

Again--all men have "justification of life"--as to the condemnation of the Fall:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all men are declared righteous, as to being absolved of the condemnation of the Fall. All men are now born saved. Christ's perfection alone. No faith, endurance, belief, or obedience required for mankind. Christ alone. His righteousness. Done. Over. All men justified of life--free gift.

That does not preclude the personal righteousness here:

1 John 3:7---King James Version
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

One is a free gift to all men--Christ alone--and pertains to the Fall. The other righteousness involves man's choices.

A covenant is a two or more party agreement--and involves both parties.

 

[Markk]

Personal salvation is by God's grace--which goes to them which obey God:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

IOW--eternal life(God's grace), as a personal reception--is merited upon obedience to God.

Here is an example of that:

Acts 2:38--King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Here is an example of the particular definition of "merit"--which could be applied here:

merit--Merriam Webster​

1a praiseworthy quality : VIRTUE

: the qualities or actions that constitute the basis of one's deserts

More personal justification in regards to the God complex and Messiah complex the church puts on it’s members

Context always define words…and Websters gives several definitions for the word Merit…both nouns, verbs

One of the other definitions you chose not to paste is ..” spiritual credit held to be earned by performance of righteous acts and to ensure future benefits”

So, lets put the different definitions which best fit LDS teachings on becoming a God (exaltation).

““Thus, brothers and sisters, along with the great and free gift of the universal and personal resurrection there is also the personal possibility of meriting eternal life.” – Neal A. Maxwell, “Apply theAtoning Blood of Christ” Ensign, Nov 1997, 22; message from October 1997 General Conference”

“We believe in individual merit as a means of gaining salvation” – Lowell L. Bennion, Introduction to the Gospel (1955; LDS sunday school material),”

“This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooledproperly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy tobecome in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father wouldhave every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82

“Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5


It‘s clear you chose the wrong definition by Websters, again in order to protect the delusional teachings forced on its members if they want to stay in good standing with the church. I guess the hope to have scores if not unlimited virgins as your brides, is too much for you to reject the teachings of the D&C…and as the correct dictionary definition states it is possible through …”spiritual credit held to be earned by performance of righteous acts and to ensure future benefits”

 

[Richard7]

Again--all men have "justification of life"--as to the condemnation of the Fall:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--all men are declared righteous, as to being absolved of the condemnation of the Fall. All men are now born saved. Christ's perfection alone. No faith, endurance, belief, or obedience required for mankind. Christ alone. His righteousness. Done. Over. All men justified of life--free gift.

That does not preclude the personal righteousness here:

1 John 3:7---King James Version
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

One is a free gift to all men--Christ alone--and pertains to the Fall. The other righteousness involves man's choices.

A covenant is a two or more party agreement--and involves both parties.

Great reply.... ? ? ??

 

[Janice Bower]

Markk--the "resurrection of life" is eternal life, and it isn't given as a free gift, but is a grace which is extended to those who choose to follow Christ:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Those in the so-called telestial kingdom are resurrected but don't have exaltation which is eternal life according to Mormonism.

"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

“Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom are those who are members of the Church of the Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the commandments of the Lord. …

Certain apostates have taken this sacred name upon themselves, blasphemously claiming to have met all of these requirements, when they are in fact in a state of wickedness and rebellion.

Section 76, The Vision of the Degrees of Glory

Section 76, The Vision of the Degrees of Glory-Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

 

[dberrie2020]

More personal justification in regards to the God complex and Messiah complex the church puts on it’s members

Context always define words…and Websters gives several definitions for the word Merit…both nouns, verbs

One of the other definitions you chose not to paste is ..” spiritual credit held to be earned by performance of righteous acts and to ensure future benefits”

So, lets put the different definitions which best fit LDS teachings on becoming a God (exaltation).

““Thus, brothers and sisters, along with the great and free gift of the universal and personal resurrection there is also the personal possibility of meriting eternal life.” – Neal A. Maxwell, “Apply theAtoning Blood of Christ” Ensign, Nov 1997, 22; message from October 1997 General Conference”

“We believe in individual merit as a means of gaining salvation” – Lowell L. Bennion, Introduction to the Gospel (1955; LDS sunday school material),”

“This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooledproperly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy tobecome in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father wouldhave every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82

“Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5


It‘s clear you chose the wrong definition by Websters, again in order to protect the delusional teachings forced on its members if they want to stay in good standing with the church. I guess the hope to have scores if not unlimited virgins as your brides, is too much for you to reject the teachings of the D&C…and as the correct dictionary definition states it is possible through …”spiritual credit held to be earned by performance of righteous acts and to ensure future benefits”

Another load of hooey.

 

[dberrie2020]

Those in the so-called telestial kingdom are resurrected but don't have exaltation which is eternal life according to Mormonism.

And? The scriptures testify all men will not enter into eternal life, but all men will be resurrected and judged according to works, and that for life or damnation:

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

“Those who gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom are those who are members of the Church of the Firstborn; in other words, those who keep all the commandments of the Lord. …

How is that any different from the Savior's testimony here?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Certain apostates have taken this sacred name upon themselves, blasphemously claiming to have met all of these requirements, when they are in fact in a state of wickedness and rebellion.

Section 76, The Vision of the Degrees of Glory

Section 76, The Vision of the Degrees of Glory-Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Could you explain how that is any different than this testimony?

2 Peter 2:20-22---King James Version
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Markk]

Another load of hooey.

You don't like seeing the God Complex thrown in your face I see...you can't deal with your own GA teachings? here is one from your SW's...how many virgins are you going to have? Do you discuss this with your wife? Does she even know this section that defines your faiths end goal for you even exists? Warren Jeffs loved this section...do you?

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

 

[Markk]

Chuckle, Exaltation is a place not Salvation... Exaltation is living with God, Salvation is following the Plan of Happiness or Plan of Salvation so we can be Exalted. Merit has noting to do with Living with God, merit is being worthy of Exaltation...

No, no, no, the Celestial Kingdom is a place, where men who have been "exalted" will go. It is a condition or evolution and transition of being elevated to a full God, not just a God in embryo. Eternal Life is living with God in the CK as an exalted man. At least according to LDS theology. Which you might need a refresher course.

Merit is what another word for earn...just like in scouts, when you earn a merit badge. You have to merit and earn your Godhood, as the GA teach.

 

[Bonnie]

You don't like seeing the God Complex thrown in your face I see...you can't deal with your own GA teachings? here is one from your SW's...how many virgins are you going to have? Do you discuss this with your wife? Does she even know this section that defines your faiths end goal for you even exists? Warren Jeffs loved this section...do you?

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

62 And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

I would like to know where God told Joseph Smith it was find and dandy for him to marry other men's wives while they were still married to their first husbands...where is that commanded in D and C 132? I mean, married women would not be virgins, would they? And Smith didn't just marry them for eternity; he married at least two of them for time as well as eternity. I have documented that on here several times. You probably have documentation for that, as well, in your many volumes of Mormon writings.

 

[Richard7]

No, no, no, the Celestial Kingdom is a place, where men who have been "exalted" will go. It is a condition or evolution and transition of being elevated to a full God, not just a God in embryo. Eternal Life is living with God in the CK as an exalted man. At least according to LDS theology. Which you might need a refresher course.

Merit is what another word for earn...just like in scouts, when you earn a merit badge. You have to merit and earn your Godhood, as the GA teach.

Well good buddy, another refresher for sure....

Markk said:
It is called exaltation, general salvation is giving freely to all me by the atonement, and they will receive the resurrection of life according to LDS theology, but exaltation, or eternal life must be earned by merit and when archived…you will be a God!!!

You very much agreed with me.... Markk: "the Celestial Kingdom is a place"
Yes it is a place, the Celestial Degree of Glory, Gods Kingdom where he resides and presides.

About Merit, this is nothing but a continuous debate going nowhere... your fine with earned and we of course disagree because we all know you can not earn you way into the Celestial Kingdom... the day you can show me that will be the day I will question my membership... Okay?

 

[dberrie2020]

I would like to know where God told Joseph Smith it was find and dandy for him to marry other men's wives while they were still married to their first husbands.

Just a point here Bonnie--

You, and the critics here--- have David in the kingdom of God--and David not only married another man's wife--he had the man married to her murdered, just so David could marry her.

If you have David inheriting eternal life--then you shouldn't have any problem with Joseph Smith doing the same, as it relates to that issue--right?

If not--please explain why David could do what he did, and inherit eternal life--when someone who is guilty of less--can't?

 

[Richard7]

Just a point here Bonnie--

You, and the critics here--- have David in the kingdom of God--and David not only married another man's wife--he had the man married to her murdered, just so David could marry her.

If you have David inheriting eternal life--then you shouldn't have any problem with Joseph Smith doing the same, as it relates to that issue--right?

If not--please explain why David could do what he did, and inherit eternal life--when someone who is guilty of less--can't?

? ? ? ?

 

[Markk]

Just a point here Bonnie--

You, and the critics here--- have David in the kingdom of God--and David not only married another man's wife--he had the man married to her murdered, just so David could marry her.

If you have David inheriting eternal life--then you shouldn't have any problem with Joseph Smith doing the same, as it relates to that issue--right?

If not--please explain why David could do what he did, and inherit eternal life--when someone who is guilty of less--can't?

David, like all for us was a sinner, and commented deep sin’s we all know about…and God forgave those sins.

Joseph, like Warren Jeffs, are men who think they are Gods…and boast of it and teach others they can become a God…apples and oranges DB

Also, you know as well as I do “eternal life” in a LDS construct, for a man, men that they become a God. So here is another attempt where you are justifying your God complex…and throwing King David in the mix, comparing him to the likes of Joseph Smith and by default Warren Jeffs and other men that followed Josephs words and examples of believing the are and can become a God.

Your MO is so obvious, and for Bonnie, I hope she sees how most all your posts, have a means to the end, in justifying your God delusion.

In case anyone reads this, and does not understand LDS terms:

“Everlasting Life” (immortality) = all people, not matter what they might have done will receive the resurrection of life…Hitler and Stalin receive this and have no choice, it is forced on all.

”Eternal Life” = For the worthy man, means becoming a God And having “ALL” the Power, Glory, Dominion, and Knowledge of HF and Jesus, and the ability to make worlds for their very own spirit children to live on.

So reading post like DB wrote above, one has to read in a LDS context.