Reformedguy
Well-known member
So are you. ?
In Calvinism where is the love
- Thread starter Theophilus
- Start date
Theo1689
Well-known member
Prove it.
SovereignGrace
Well-known member
Seeing it’s your constituents who are claiming Christ lusted (see sinned) after a woman/women and that Satan corrupted God’s word, both your crutches you use to prop up your argument just got kicked out from under you, Nick. Take’m both to “Berea” and teach’m to become The Man you are.
Josheb
Well-known member
Hogwash
Appeal to authority.
Argument from silence.
According to my search of my electronic version of Calvin's "Institutes...." the word love occurs more that 350 times! Calvin mentioned the "love of God," 29 times. Speaking of God's divine mercy in Book 2, Chapter 5, Article 17 he wrote,
He (Paul) indeed says nothing about more than he says to Titus, when he writes, 'After that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy he saved us."
And perhaps one of the reasons Calvin did not expound upon the salvation of the unsaved in his "Institutes..." is because "The Institutes...." was written in an effort to reform the Roman Catholic Church and not as a treatise on salvation. I don't expect the owner's manual to my truck to contain a recipe on cooking brisket.
Then perhaps some of his commentaries should be read (and should have been read before posting this woefully wanting op. Here's what Calvin said in his study of 1 John.
For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish. And this order ought to be carefully observed; for such is the wicked ambition which belongs to our nature, that when the question relates to the origin of our salvation, we quickly form diabolical imaginations about our own merits. Accordingly, we imagine that God is reconciled to us, because he has reckoned us worthy that he should look upon us. But Scripture everywhere extols his pure and unmingled mercy, which sets aside all merits.
And the words of Christ mean nothing else, when he declares the cause to be in the love of God. For if we wish to ascend higher, the Spirit shuts the door by the mouth of Paul, when he informs us that this love was founded on the purpose of his will, (Ephesians 1:5.) And, indeed, it is very evident that Christ spoke in this manner, in order to draw away men from the contemplation of themselves to look at the mercy of God alone. Nor does he say that God was moved to deliver us, because he perceived in us something that was worthy of so excellent a blessing, but ascribes the glory of our deliverance entirely to his love. And this is still more clear from what follows; for he adds, that God gave his Son to men, that they may not perish. Hence it follows that, until Christ bestow his aid in rescuing the lost, all are destined to eternal destruction. This is also demonstrated by Paul from a consideration of the time; for he loved us while we were still enemies by sin, (Romans 5:8, 10.)
And, indeed, where sin reigns, we shall find nothing but the wrath of God, which draws death along with it. It is mercy, therefore, that reconciles us to God, that he may likewise restore us to life.
This mode of expression, however, may appear to be at variance with many passages of Scripture, which lay in Christ the first foundation of the love of God to us, and show that out of him we are hated by God. But we ought to remember -- what I have already stated -- that the secret love with which the Heavenly Father loved us in himself is higher than all other causes; but that the grace which he wishes to be made known to us, and by which we are excited to the hope of salvation, commences with the reconciliation which was procured through Christ. For since he necessarily hates sin, how shall we believe that we are loved by him, until atonement has been made for those sins on account of which he is justly offended at us? Thus, the love of Christ must intervene for the purpose of reconciling God to us, before we have any experience of his fatherly kindness. But as we are first informed that God, because he loved us, gave his Son to die for us, so it is immediately added, that it is Christ alone on whom, strictly speaking, faith ought to look.
He gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him may not perish. This, he says, is the proper look of faith, to be fixed on Christ, in whom it beholds the breast of God filled with love: this is a firm and enduring support, to rely on the death of Christ as the only pledge of that love. The word only-begotten is emphatic, (emphatikon) to magnify the fervor of the love of God towards us. For as men are not easily convinced that God loves them, in order to remove all doubt, he has expressly stated that we are so very dear to God that, on our account, he did not even spare his only-begotten Son. Since, therefore, God has most abundantly testified his love towards us, whoever is not satisfied with this testimony, and still remains in doubt, offers a high insult to Christ, as if he had been an ordinary man given up at random to death. But we ought rather to consider that, in proportion to the estimation in which God holds his only-begotten Son, so much the more precious did our salvation appear to him, for the ransom of which he chose that his only-begotten Son should die. To this name Christ has a right, because he is by nature the only Son of God; and he communicates this honor to us by adoption, when we are engrafted into his body..............
Still it is not yet very evident why and how faith bestows life upon us. Is it because Christ renews us by his Spirit, that the righteousness of God may live and be vigorous in us; or is it because, having been cleansed by his blood, we are accounted righteous before God by a free pardon? It is indeed certain, that these two things are always joined together; but as the certainty of salvation is the subject now in hand, we ought chiefly to hold by this reason, that we live, because God loves us freely by not imputing to us our sins. For this reason sacrifice is expressly mentioned, by which, together with sins, the curse and death are destroyed. I have already explained the object of these two clauses, which is, to inform us that in Christ we regain the possession of life, of which we are destitute in ourselves; for in this wretched condition of mankind, redemption, in the order of time, goes before salvation...................
The Father loveth the Son. But what is the meaning of this reason? Does he regard all others with hatred? The answer is easy, that he does not speak of the common love with which God regards men whom he has created, or his other works, but of that peculiar love which, beginning with the Son, flows from him to all the creatures. For that love with which, embracing the Son, he embraces us also in him, leads him to communicate all his benefits to us by his hand.
"God loves the human race," and God's love flows from Christ "to all the creatures." The irony of this op is that few things are more hateful than bearing false witness.
Proverbs 25:18
Like a club and a sword and a sharp arrow Is a man who bears false witness against his neighbor.
If this op was developed on independent of other sources, then the responsibility for this egregious error falls on you alone. If this was sourced from someone else then reason now exists not to trust that source, knowing their report about Calvin isn't just biased, but false, and that source is unreliable as a source for truth. I timed my search. It took 37 seconds. The above information is available to all of us within seconds. No excuse for this op. Really, really, really bad op.
The mods should be asked to take it down.
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Josheb
Well-known member
Calvin's commentary on chapter three of John's gospel includes the following,
...and...
Very bad op.
"Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life. "
...and...
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world. It is a confirmation of the preceding statement; for it was not in vain that God sent his own Son to us. He came not to destroy; and therefore it follows, that it is the peculiar office of the Son of God, that all who believe may obtain salvation by him. There is now no reason why any man should be in a state of hesitation, or of distressing anxiety, as to the manner in which he may escape death, when we believe that it was the purpose of God that Christ should deliver us from it. The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keep the road of faith."
Very bad op.
e v e 21
Well-known member
the satanic realm instigated the fall.
before the fall there were already corrupt evil beings.
Theophilus
Well-known member
Exactly
Theophilus
Well-known member
Calvin along with every other honest Calvinist agrees with Pink. God only loves the elect and saves them not Esau whom He hated. That is an unloving god.
Theo1689
Well-known member
God saving people is "unloving"?
Whatever.
Sounds like the issue is not so much God being "unloving" (quite the opposite, He loves people who are COMPLETELY undeserving of it), but you are simply too demanding. You think you Lord it over God!
Theo1689
Well-known member
Please pay attention.
The "Hogwash" comment was not about Pink, it was about your false and insulting remark about Calvinists allegedly having "a blind spot for the love of God". We don't. We have a FAR better understanding and appreciation of God's love than you do.
Theophilus
Well-known member
God damning by determinism in the false doctrine of double predestination is unloving. I reject that false teaching.
Hogwash is right so please pay attention .
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Who said it's unloving?
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Wouldn't you say that God is Loving, within the Community of the Trinity? And God is Loving, within the Community of the Saints and Elect Angels too?
Isn't it Loving to protect his Loved Ones from Sinners?
Theophilus
Well-known member
God loves sinners and sent Jesus to die for their sins . Gods love never changes . God desires all mankind to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Theophilus
Well-known member
No this sounds like a silly question. Did God protect Jesus from sinners who crucified Him or all the disciples who were martyred by sinners ?
Theo1689
Well-known member
No, it's not.
Since nobody is trying to get you to ACCEPT the teaching, it seems obsessive for you to keep talking about it.
Where is the love in your posts?
ReverendRV
Well-known member
I'm talking about his Saints. It is Loving, for God to protect his Loved Ones from Sinners. We suffer now, because a Worker is worth his Wages. Jesus suffered because he reaped our Wages. An unpunished child is no child at all...
But this is a rabbit trail. It is Loving for God to protect his Loved Ones from Sinners. In Hades, there is a Gulf that protects the Saints from the Sinners; this is God Loving his Saints; right?
Theo1689
Well-known member
God loves sinners.
God does not love ALL sinners.
I guess you've ripped Ps. 5:5, Mal. 1:2-3, and Rom. 9:11-13 out of your Bible.
The sins of God's chosen people, yes.
That's what the BIBLE teaches.
Correct.
He has always loved the elect and hated the reprobate.
He will never change to love the reprobate.
That's false, and based on a twisting of Scriptures.
If your god wants all mankind to be saved, then he's an incompetent klutz who can't get what he wants.
Thank God I worship the true God, who NEVER FAILS to save EVERY sinner for whom Christ died.
God loves elect Israel in a way different than He loves the rest of the nations. Israel is the apple of God's eye (Dt 32:10; Pro 7:2; Ps 17:8; Zech 2:8).
Did God send prophets to any of the other nations?
Your view of God is incredibly skewed. You ask me where is the love in my theology; I ask you, where is the truth about God in yours?
IMO, you are worshipping a false god. Where is the true God found in your theology? I don't see Him there.