Why is it silly.
No. Where's the love of God in that?
No. God musn't have loved them. Where's the love of God in that?
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In Calvinism where is the love
- Thread starter Theophilus
- Start date
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Why does He simply not save everyone, He loves them so much. He could right?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
He forgets Christ went voluntarily. He offered Himself.
God prefers libertarian choice over keeping people out of hell.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Please explain. Would you say that the Justice or the Holiness of God is greater than the Love of God?
Libertarian choice is false, wrong thinking.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Where does the Bible teach such a thing
Does the same go for those in heaven? Can you choose to leave?
e v e 21
Well-known member
esau is those satanic beings as type that is in enmity to God.
they hate us and hate God and were never from eden.... but they did make it fall (stealing the birthright)
Later, jacob played out getting the birthright back.
So it is Very loving to us His souls that God hates esau and will not save esau. Because esau hurt us, steals from us and God, and instigated the fall.
moreover, esau doesn't want God and therefore.... he will lose the birthright he stole. And this is entirely Good.
God is very loving to restore the birthright to jacob
and to reject esau.
Esau is the unloving evil one.
Get your villain straight.
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e v e 21
Well-known member
@Theophilus
if you want examples of esau types, just look at many celebrities, politicians, scholars, religious pharisees, leaders, etc., with lots of worldly success.... yet soulless ghouls.
Being successful in this world doesnt mean one is blessed or saved.
if you want examples of esau types, just look at many celebrities, politicians, scholars, religious pharisees, leaders, etc., with lots of worldly success.... yet soulless ghouls.
Being successful in this world doesnt mean one is blessed or saved.
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e v e 21
Well-known member
it's not really helpful to use jargo like 'determinism'...
it confuses things because determinism, libertarianism, and free will are satanic early modern philosophies.
much simpler it is to just say :
we are helpless and have very limited choices
because of what adam did...
we can do what God allows us
.... within what God allows we can do things.
we can declare our loyalty to God...
God our Deity has final say
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Josheb
Well-known member
No one Calvinist is wholly representative of the whole, any more than any one synergist is representative of the whole. Calvinism, like Arminianism, is a spectrum of beliefs based on the belief in God as the sole causal agent of salvation. This op starts with a falsehood and uses fallacious arguments to rag on Calvin and then moves the goal posts citing Pink when the original complaint was about Calvin. The evidence PROVING Calvin taught differently than was claimed has been provided and any response other than, "Oops! My regrets, brothers, I guess I got it wrong," only adds to the failure of this op.
Calvin's Institutes does contain mentions of God's love.
Calvin's commentary on 1 John affirms God's love
Calvin's commentaries on John's gospel and his epistle explicitly affirm, in contradiction of Pink, God's love for all.
Pink is Calvinist, but he wasn't Calvin. Pink wrote a treatise on love, just as he did on God's sovereignty. It's gonna be just as problematic for you as the one on sovereignty quoted from in this op but that doesn't change the fact Calvin, the namesake of the Calvinist povs, did not teach as you claimed.
Josheb
Well-known member
That too is wrong. More than Cal in this thread have said God loves all. The op is wrong, and so is this post.
Theophilus
Well-known member
If God loves all and only saves the predestined elect then he really did not love the non elect since he did not save them . Monergism is all God saving apart from man which includes the faith that is also a gift he does not give to the non elect .
Theo1689
Well-known member
First of all, your bankrupt criticism is fallacious, since it defines "salvation" as the ONLY valid form of "love", and that simply isn't so.
God loves the non-elect by:
- not smiting them down dead immediately upon their first sin;
- giving them riches;
- giving them loving spouses;
- giving them families;
- giving them bountiful food;
- etc.
- etc.
- etc.
And let's be VERY clear about this... If the above is your definition of "not loving", then the god YOU serve is "not loving", since you claim he wants all to be saved, yet he doesn't save everyone. If he was TRULY "loving" (according to your daffy-nishon), then he would save them WITHOUT requiring them to have faith.
Amen!
Are you claiming that God has some "obligation" to give all men faith?
He has no such obligation.
ANd of course, your false teachings leave no room for Rom. 9.
"Where is the love" in anti-Calvinism?
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Change the one word Elect, to the words Faithful/Lost; and see what happens...
If God loves all and only saves the predestined Faithful then he really did not love the Lost since he did not save them.
Loves god made in man's image ^^^
Theophilus
Well-known member
Yes that is Monergism
No, that's you, whatever you are.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Notice the wording here everyone else. The "If" comes from a finite mind about to lay down humanistic derived criteria upon Holy God which He must meet in order to be God to them:
And here we have not only man complaining and replying against God as per Romans 9:19-21, we see that man is actually judging God. This is humanism not only opposing God's way of salvation, but God Himself. These things are mentioned in Colossians 1:21 & Romans 8:7 &c.
That's pretty much correct everyone. So, as believers in the Doctrines of Grace, we actually do believe; 1) God is actually God; Isaiah 45:5; 2) God does ALL the saving; Ephesians 2:1-10; 2 Timothy 1:9; 3) God only saves whom He willed to save prior to creation, the elect, and none other; Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 2:8-10 &c.
American Gothic
Well-known member
God loved them enough to redeem them - to become sin for them, to die for them, to forgive them
They still don't love Him
and have no Saving relationship with HIm
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