Jesus pierced, YHWH pierced.

Let's text the logic.

Sure.

Q: Does the third person know the Father?

A: Nope, only the Son does, or anyone who the Son desires to reveal Him.

The only way "the third person" could know the Father is by revelation from Jesus.

In other words, "the third person" ain't God.
 
Jesus worked for God, did everything God required, even dying for God’s will despite not really wanting to go through with it. Jesus was obedient to God and that’s the height of lordship.

John 17
4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
The ONE Lord CANNOT have A Lord.
Blah blah blah.. no idea what point you're trying to make.

The point Jesus was making is "no third person".. lulz
The point Jesus was making is that ONLY The Son knows The Father and vice versa.
 
Sure.

Q: Does the third person know the Father?

A: Nope, only the Son does, or anyone who the Son desires to reveal Him.

The only way "the third person" could know the Father is by revelation from Jesus.

In other words, "the third person" ain't God.
Back to the first post.
If no one knows the father except the son means that only the son has knowledge of the father, then, by the same standard, only the father knows the son , equates to only the father has knowledge of the son.
Following scripture that cannot be possible.
Why?
Because we know the Son and so does His apostles
Jesus is objective was to teach about his special relationship with the father. Any of this does not support in the idea that there is no third person.
You are inferring into the passage what it’s not there.
 
Back to the first post.
If no one knows the father except the son means that only the son has knowledge of the father, then, by the same standard, only the father knows the son , equates to only the father has knowledge of the son.
Following scripture that cannot be possible.
Why?
Because we know the Son and so does His apostles
Jesus is objective was to teach about his special relationship with the father. Any of this does not support in the idea that there is no third person.
You are inferring into the passage what it’s not there.

The third person would have to be revealed the Father.

That's what you are denying.
 
37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”
You would need to explain this.
I really don't. It's a misquote of Zech 12:10.

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

The verse does not state that God is not flesh and blood but that flesh and blood [mankind] has not revealed X.
It's clear God in heaven isn't flesh and blood as Isaiah 40:18,25; 46:5, lays out as well. That's why Jesus quoted it.

17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

Jesus not being God is not the message Jesus is communicating.
That is the message. Jesus isn't God, nor the Father in any sense, nor in heaven.

Rather the relationship between Jesus and God vs. humanity and God. If Jesus is a created being should have addressed it as our God and our Father.
He does say that.

Jesus said this because He is God’s Son by nature vs. humanity being God’s children by creation. Being God Jesus has a different relationship with God and the Father than man has. That is why Jesus said ‘my Father and your Father, to my God and your God', and not ‘our Father and our God.
Notice when Jesus said 'Our Father', He did not include Himself in the 'Our'.
There's zero difference in meaning with what he said.

Let's take a little bunny trail.
Down a rabbit trail... ;)

10 “And I will... then they will look on Me whom they pierced
Whoever 'Me' is, is the same person as 'I'.
The problem is that in the Hebrew "et" should be translated as "with". They should look to me with whom they pierced. Isaiah already proved about YHWH doesn't have flesh, blood, nor is a man.

Then who is 'I'
12:1 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him
Both renderings of 'Lord" translate from 'YHWH',
YHWH states that He was pierced.
YHWH can't be pierced. He has no flesh nor physicality to speak of. BTW, this piggybacks Psalm 22 which Christians love to quote and it's clear there that God and the person "pierced" are not the same person nor the same God.

I do not disagree, God is Spirit.
Which has no physicality.

Your argument is based of wrong interpretations of Scripture.
No, God is clear He ain't flesh and Jesus admits it.

Also when you disprove anything give an explanation. Unlike others on this forum I do not possess omniscience.
I've pretty much done that.
 
I really don't. It's a misquote of Zech 12:10.


It's clear God in heaven isn't flesh and blood as Isaiah 40:18,25; 46:5, lays out as well. That's why Jesus quoted it.


That is the message. Jesus isn't God, nor the Father in any sense, nor in heaven.


He does say that.


There's zero difference in meaning with what he said.


Down a rabbit trail... ;)


The problem is that in the Hebrew "et" should be translated as "with". They should look to me with whom they pierced. Isaiah already proved about YHWH doesn't have flesh, blood, nor is a man.


YHWH can't be pierced. He has no flesh nor physicality to speak of. BTW, this piggybacks Psalm 22 which Christians love to quote and it's clear there that God and the person "pierced" are not the same person nor the same God.


Which has no physicality.


No, God is clear He ain't flesh and Jesus admits it.


I've pretty much done that.

Right.. God isn't a man or flesh.

Bible 101

A nice gust of fresh air
 
The ONE Lord CANNOT have A Lord.

The point Jesus was making is that ONLY The Son knows The Father and vice versa.

Jesus said we can know the only one true God.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
 
It's clear God in heaven isn't flesh and blood as Isaiah 40:18,25; 46:5, lays out as well. That's why Jesus quoted it.
As I said I do not disagree that God is Spirit and not flesh. But that is not what the passage states.
That is the message. Jesus isn't God, nor the Father in any sense, nor in heaven.
Be my guest. Dissect the verse and show us where in the text it states this.

17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”
There's zero difference in meaning with what he said.
Your God, My God, Your Father, My Father. He never said Our Father or Our God. = Never included Himself in the 'Our".
Carries a tremendous amount of meaning.
The problem is that in the Hebrew "et" should be translated as "with". They should look to me with whom they pierced. Isaiah already proved about YHWH doesn't have flesh, blood, nor is a man.
You have the wrong version of et. its not a conjunction.

853 אֹות, אֵת [ʾeth /ayth/] untranslated particle. Apparent contracted from 226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; TWOT 186; GK 254 and 906; 22 occurrences; AV translates as not translated 0. 1 sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative. Strong, J. (1995). In Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. Woodside Bible
Fellowship.

An untranslated particle in Hebrew often described in grammars (somewhat superficially) as the sign of the direct object after a transitive verb. Its origin is unknown. The prevailing view is that ʾēt was originally a noun meaning “essence, substance, self,” a significance which it subsequently lost in the historical development of the language. Hamilton, V. P. (1999). 186 אֵת. In R. L. Harris, G. L. Archer Jr., & B. K. Waltke (Eds.), Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (electronic ed., p. 83). Moody Press.

In the verse Et is an object marker.
Et only appears before definite direct objects.
Et never separated from its direct object by other words
Et does not appear before indirect objects

Could translate as
Look towards me 'to' whom
Look towards me 'the one' whom

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I shall pour on him of the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem The Spirit of cherishing and of loves and they shall gaze upon me, The One whom they pierced through, and they shall wail over him like they wail over an only child, and they shall be broken over him as they are broken over a first born

Good News Translation
"I will fill the descendants of David and the other people of Jerusalem with the spirit of mercy and the spirit of prayer. They will look at the one whom they stabbed to death, and they will mourn for him like those who mourn for an only child. They will mourn bitterly, like those who have lost their first-born son.

International Standard Version
I will pour out on the house of David and on the residents of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and of supplications, and they will look to me—the one whom they pierced.'" Then they will mourn for him, as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him, as for a firstborn son.

New Revised Standard Version
And I will pour out a spirit of compassion and supplication on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that, when they look on the one whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

.YHWH can't be pierced. He has no flesh nor physicality to speak of. BTW, this piggybacks Psalm 22 which Christians love to quote and it's clear there that God and the person "pierced" are not the same person nor the same God.
Jesus is God along with the Father and HS. As a Spirit it is clear Jesus cannot be pierced. But after taking on human form He can. Your god is somehow limited to what is He revealed about Himself in the Bible. My God is omnipotent and is able to create a body and abide in it, and somehow be fully God and fully man. So there is no impossibility that this could have happened.

As to Ps 22 place your argument.
 
As I said I do not disagree that God is Spirit and not flesh. But that is not what the passage states.
That's exactly what Isaiah 40:18,25;46:5, says and why Jesus referenced it in Mat 16:17.

Be my guest. Dissect the verse and show us where in the text it states this.

17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

Your God, My God, Your Father, My Father. He never said Our Father or Our God. = Never included Himself in the 'Our".
Carries a tremendous amount of meaning.
It carries the same meaning. Your father + my father = our father.

You have the wrong version of et. its not a conjunction.

853 אֹות, אֵת [ʾeth /ayth/] untranslated particle. Apparent contracted from 226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; TWOT 186; GK 254 and 906; 22 occurrences; AV translates as not translated 0. 1 sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative. Strong, J. (1995). In Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. Woodside Bible
Fellowship.

An untranslated particle in Hebrew often described in grammars (somewhat superficially) as the sign of the direct object after a transitive verb. Its origin is unknown. The prevailing view is that ʾēt was originally a noun meaning “essence, substance, self,” a significance which it subsequently lost in the historical development of the language. Hamilton, V. P. (1999). 186 אֵת. In R. L. Harris, G. L. Archer Jr., & B. K. Waltke (Eds.), Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (electronic ed., p. 83). Moody Press.

In the verse Et is an object marker.
Et only appears before definite direct objects.
Et never separated from its direct object by other words
Et does not appear before indirect objects
Gen 4:1 translates "et" as with. There are exceptions as in this case.

Could translate as
Look towards me 'to' whom
Look towards me 'the one' whom

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I shall pour on him of the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem The Spirit of cherishing and of loves and they shall gaze upon me, The One whom they pierced through, and they shall wail over him like they wail over an only child, and they shall be broken over him as they are broken over a first born

Good News Translation
"I will fill the descendants of David and the other people of Jerusalem with the spirit of mercy and the spirit of prayer. They will look at the one whom they stabbed to death, and they will mourn for him like those who mourn for an only child. They will mourn bitterly, like those who have lost their first-born son.

International Standard Version
I will pour out on the house of David and on the residents of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and of supplications, and they will look to me—the one whom they pierced.'" Then they will mourn for him, as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for him, as for a firstborn son.

New Revised Standard Version
And I will pour out a spirit of compassion and supplication on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that, when they look on the one whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
Yep, use the with. You've already agreed God is spirit, so you can't pierce spirit.

Jesus is God along with the Father and HS. As a Spirit it is clear Jesus cannot be pierced.
There's one person as God, alone, Neh 9:6, etc.

But after taking on human form He can.
Actually never happened. Isaiah shows this as well as Jesus own words.

Your god is somehow limited to what is He revealed about Himself in the Bible.
Limited to perfection. Ironically, the NT says Jesus was less than God in the flesh. So, your Jesus is limited. ;)

Also, Jesus states he can only do what he sees the Father do. Well, the Father never became flesh so Jesus never did as God either. ;) John 5:19

My God is omnipotent and is able to create a body and abide in it, and somehow be fully God and fully man. So there is no impossibility that this could have happened.
Actually, that's false as shown above.

As to Ps 22 place your argument.
There's God and someone else. God isn't the one beaten, etc. It's pretty clear. Psalm 22:19-20.
 
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