Vatican's message to Buddhists puts Christ and Buddha on the same level

Blessings8 said:
I read the bible before I was catholic. I do not need the CC to tell me that Jesus meant what he said in Jn 6.
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I wasn't talking about John 6, but okay. I don't think John 6 is about Communion, though it may prefigure it. He had not yet instituted Holy Communion. I think the chapter is a metaphor about Jesus being the "bread" of life, that it is an extension of what He told the woman at the well in John 4. We cannot live without food (bread) or blood (drink). That "eating and drinking" Him means believing in Him and the Gospel message, which is the "lifeblood" of our salvation. Because people can be saved who have not partaken of the Lord's supper--look at Cornelius and his family and friends--were they NOT saved after hearing and believing Peter's message, when the HS came so mightily to them, but BEFORE they could be baptized and partake of the Lord's Supper? Was the thief on the cross not saved, since he was not baptized nor did he ever partake of the Lord's supper?

No one should despise the means of grace that Jesus has given us--baptism and Holy Communion--but neither is absolutely essential for salvation, if one is unable to get either or is prevented from doing so, but has faith in Jesus Christ. Because what did Paul write:

Romans 10--8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.
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Blessings8 said:
But I thank you Bonnie, i truly appreciate your words. I am not lying. I am not trying to deceive as others claim. I truly believe what I believe and try to teach it to the best of my ability.
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Okay. But your church has still taught many errors over the centuries, like the 4 Marian dogmas, Indulgences; celibate, unmarried clergy; Mariolatry, etc.
 
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Stella1000 said:
Each to his own conscience and discernment.
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Which will be very detrimental to those who simply can't discern. We are told in scripture that deception will be manifest. If you don't know the written word of God and seek the Holy Spirit's wisdom and the safety in believing counselors, you will be deceived. Nowhere have I seen Francis speaking salvation in the name of Jesus as did Paul and the other first century believers. Why is that you think?
 
romishpopishorganist said:
What you know is what you have been taught by scholars you trust. You just parrot their arguments.

So let's be clear: it isn't what the Bible says or unsays that guides you, but what scholars say the Bible says and unsays.
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False. It is whatntye Bible teaches and specifically what it does not teach relative to Mary. No scholars necessary. We can read.
 
romishpopishorganist said:
What you know is what you have been taught by scholars you trust. You just parrot their arguments.
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Projecting, Romish?

Let's be clear--What I know comes from the Bible, which is not a closed book, but open for all to read and understand. So, I am parroting nothing--that would be Catholics who parrot what their church tells them to understand.
romishpopishorganist said:
So let's be clear: it isn't what the Bible says or unsays that guides you, but what scholars say the Bible says and unsays.
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Baloney. Let's be clear--Scholars in Biblical languages can be helpful in translating certain things
by going back to the original languages. But I need no help in reading and little help in understanding what the Bible says and means.
 
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Bonnie said:
Projecting, Romish?

Let's be clear--What I know comes from the Bible, which is not a closed book, but open for all to read amd understand. So, I am parroting nothing--that would be Catholics who parrot what their church tells them to understand.

Baloney. Let's be clear--Scholars in Biblical languages can be helpful in translating certain things
by going back to the original languages. But I need no help in reading and little help in understanding what the Bible says and means.
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You have shown you are able to read and understand what the Bible says. Scripture is written so that most of it is extremely clear and easy to understand. God has said it is not in the skies and it is not over the seas, in other words we can understand without others telling us what to believe. I mean " I am the way, the truth and the life..." John 14:6 is clear and simple. Not complicated at all.
 
balshan said:
You have shown you are able to read and understand what the Bible says. Scripture is written so that most of it is extremely clear and easy to understand. God has said it is not in the skies and it is not over the seas, in other words we can understand without others telling us what to believe. I mean " I am the way, the truth and the life..." John 14:6 is clear and simple. Not complicated at all.
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And for those who have trouble understanding English, there are Bibles such as Easy English, Good News for Modern Man (which can be had in a RC version), and the Living Bible, which are all simple.

--Rich
 
Bonnie said:
Projecting, Romish?

Let's be clear--What I know comes from the Bible, which is not a closed book, but open for all to read and understand. So, I am parroting nothing--that would be Catholics who parrot what their church tells them to understand.
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So you do not parrot the arguments of Greek scholars in your posts here? You do not parrot arguments of other Protestant scholars when you post here? You just quote the Bible, do you?
Bonnie said:
Baloney. Let's be clear--Scholars in Biblical languages can be helpful in translating certain things by going back to the original languages. But I need no help in reading and little help in understanding what the Bible says and means.
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Then why do you parrot the arguments of scholars?
 
romishpopishorganist said:
Oh for Pete's sake....

What would have the pope do? Tell them they better give up their false pagan views and convert or burn in Hell forever? Tell them they are a bunch of pagans who worship idols---and they better give that up or burn in Hell?

Sir---does stuff like that ever work? Does stuff like that make people want to believe in our God or come to Jesus?

I can tell you that I am Christian----and even as a Christian, nonsense like that would only make me want to tell you to take your God and your religion and stick it.

Before you tell me I am a no good liberal who hates Truth---I believe in Hell. The point is how we approach our fellow human beings who do not share our Faith. These people are real people. They are not demons, they are not Satan. They are fellow human beings and should be treated as such. Note, Jesus DID talk about Hell and he DID warn people about Hell--but those comments were usually reserved for the religious leaders and establishment who were trying to silence him or who rejected him outright. The rich man went Hell becasue he was in essence Jewish in name only. He knew the OT and what it commanded but ignored it. This was illustrated by his treatment, or lack of treatment of Lazarus.

They believe as strongly in their Faith as we do ours. How would you feel if a Buddhist told you to quit your worship of Christ -as you are going to Hell unless you believe as the Buddhist does? Heck--how do you feel when the fundamentalists on this site accuse us of statue worship, or Mary idolatry, or bread worship, or all the other ridiculous accusations they make--and tell you to repent or burn in Hell? Does that convince anyone? No. All it does is make them look like idiots. We must respect people of good will who do not believe as we do. We want them to convert, yes. But not respecting them and telling them about going to Hell--that to me is just Protestant fundamentalism in Catholic trappings.

We are better than that.

Say what you want about the following: I want people to convert to Catholicism because it is true. I want people to know Jesus becasue Jesus is not just God--but WORTHY. In other words----for me, knowing Jesus isn't about staying out of Hell and making sure my "crown of glory" awaits. Knowing Jesus is about knowing and loving a person----who is WORTHY of such love, worship, and adoration. When one truly knows Christ, one cannot but help but worship Him.
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Obviously, they should tell the Buddhists how great and wonderful their false pagan religion is. They should tell them that they are fine in their pagan religion and the Novus Ordo sect holds their religious ceremonies to their false deities in very high regard and esteem.

If they weren't going to try to convert them, they just shouldn't have said anything. Of course, being the Universalist you are, you don't believe they are in need of conversion. Invincible ignorance covers everyone in the world.

Pope Leo XIII spoke of the efforts of St. Thomas the Apostle in his preaching to the pagan Hindus.

Pope Leo XIII, Ad Extremas: “Our thoughts turn first of all to theblessed Apostle Thomas who is rightly called the founder of preaching the Gospel to the Hindus. Then, there is Francis Xavier… Through his extraordinary perseverance, heconverted hundreds of thousands of Hindus from the myths and vile superstitions ofthe Brahmans to the true religion. In the footsteps of this holy man followed numerouspriests… they are continuing these noble efforts; nevertheless, in the vast reaches of the Earth, many are still deprived of the truth, miserably imprisoned in the darkness of superstition.”
 
Bonnie said:
I wasn't talking about John 6, but okay. I don't think John 6 is about Communion, though it may prefigure it. He had not yet instituted Holy Communion.
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Of course it is. Jesus was preparing the people to receive a Good so Great.

" I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
 
organgrinder said:
Which will be very detrimental to those who simply can't discern. We are told in scripture that deception will be manifest. If you don't know the written word of God and seek the Holy Spirit's wisdom and the safety in believing counselors, you will be deceived. Nowhere have I seen Francis speaking salvation in the name of Jesus as did Paul and the other first century believers. Why is that you think?
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What? That is so untrue it's nuts. In fact the last 3 Wednesday audiences (which is homily delivered to anyone who wants to hear or read it, each Wednesday)..... have been all about apostolic evangelisation in the imitation of Paul and the Saints.

Catechesis. The passion for evangelization: the apostolic zeal of the believer. 9. Witnesses: Saint Paul. 2
Catechesis. The passion for evangelization: the apostolic zeal of the believer. 9. Witnesses: the martyrs
The passion for evangelization: the apostolic zeal of the believer. 2. Witnesses: monasticism and the power of intercession. Gregory of Narek

Those are just a small recent few. The Pope incessantly evangelises and teaches Catholics to do the same.
 
Stella1000 said:
What? That is so untrue it's nuts. In fact the last 3 Wednesday audiences (which is homily delivered to anyone who wants to hear or read it, each Wednesday)..... have been all about apostolic evangelisation in the imitation of Paul and the Saints.

Catechesis. The passion for evangelization: the apostolic zeal of the believer. 9. Witnesses: Saint Paul. 2
Catechesis. The passion for evangelization: the apostolic zeal of the believer. 9. Witnesses: the martyrs
The passion for evangelization: the apostolic zeal of the believer. 2. Witnesses: monasticism and the power of intercession. Gregory of Narek

Those are just a small recent few. The Pope incessantly evangelises and teaches Catholics to do the same.
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This post was dealing with what he said with the Buhdists. I don't see anything in that particular discussion where he forcefully speaks that salvation is only in Jesus. He puts everything else on par with Jesus, in essence bringing the Son of God down to their level. Look at what the OP said and quoted.

Will look at your links.
 
Mysterium Fidei said:
Obviously, they should tell the Buddhists how great and wonderful their false pagan religion is.
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To the extent that the religion contains truth, it will lead a person to a saving knowledge of God.
Mysterium Fidei said:
They should tell them that they are fine in their pagan religion and the Novus Ordo sect holds their religious ceremonies to their false deities in very high regard and esteem.
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As I said, I am no fan of Pope Francis. If I had to do a service with Buddhists, I would try to come up with something that is ecumenical enough that we can both agree to it, yet does not require either of us to assent to the things we disagree with. So I would not praise the religion or cheerlead for it, but I would be respectful as I expect of the Buddhist. "Do unto others" says Jesus. If I want the Buddhist to respect my beliefs, I must respect their beliefs, sir.
Mysterium Fidei said:
If they weren't going to try to convert them, they just shouldn't have said anything. Of course, being the Universalist you are, you don't believe they are in need of conversion. Invincible ignorance covers everyone in the world.
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I am not a universalist, sir. I believe that there are elements of Truth in all religions, but the fullness of Truth is in Catholicism. I do not believe all religions are equal, sir. I do not believe all religions equally express the Truth of God. A universalist would believe that.

I also do not believe all people are going to heaven, whereas a universalist would believe that. As for who is or is not going to heaven, however, that is between God and individuals. I have nothing to do with that.
Mysterium Fidei said:
Pope Leo XIII spoke of the efforts of St. Thomas the Apostle in his preaching to the pagan Hindus.

Pope Leo XIII, Ad Extremas: “Our thoughts turn first of all to the blessed Apostle Thomas who is rightly called the founder of preaching the Gospel to the Hindus. Then, there is Francis Xavier… Through his extraordinary perseverance, he converted hundreds of thousands of Hindus from the myths and vile superstitions of the Brahmans to the true religion. In the footsteps of this holy man followed numerous priests… they are continuing these noble efforts; nevertheless, in the vast reaches of the Earth, many are still deprived of the truth, miserably imprisoned in the darkness of superstition.”
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Yeah--you never met a quote you didn't like, did you?

I am not saying we should not evangelize people with the Truth of the Gospel sir. At the same time I am not going to go Protestant fundamentalist and start Bible thumping either.

You sir, strike me of the Catholic equivalent of the Protestant fundamentalist. You take everything in an overly literal way and then start beating people over the heads with proof-texts, regardless of context.
 
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