Ezekiel 28:9-10 God declares those that die like man aren't God. Beautiful!

[Jewjitzu]

Actually...It's part of what you have to know: He, of His DIVINE, UNLIMITED and not artificially limited WILL, offered Himself up, having come as the Son of Adam, winning back the dominion that was first deleted to Adam and usurped by Shaitan when Adam turned to him for guidance.

Fortunately, Tanakh refutes all the above. God isn't a man, doesn't bleed, doesn't die, doesn't need food nor clothing, etc.

The gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. When you understand this principle, hidden in the Tenakh and brought to life in the gospel, you will understand how far you are from the truth, yet how close you come without arriving.

When you understand the idolatry that is the trinity, you'll see how far way you are.

 

[tbeachhead]

I have resisted the urge to engage with you over the shroud so far. I'm going to give my view in just a few sentences, and then I'm going to drop it again. Basically, the shroud has been carbon dated, and it is not 2000 years old, sir.

Basically, ma'am, this is a lie. The "scientists" that did the dating in London then covered up their procedures and data, as a precursor to Faucist science. They took their samples from the edges that were added to the cloth in the Middle Ages. More recent dating with the latest technology has dated the shroud to the first century, has found species of flora that went extinct in Israel after the first century. The image which cannot be duplicated using today's technology was made by intense light on the surface of the fabric. The blood saturated the fabric and was present before the image was made. The image itself is on the very top fibrils of the linen and could be scraped off. There were no pigments used. The coins on the eyes can be identified, and they date to the days of Pontius Pilate. Science lied in 1988, and could not silence honest inquiry.

So it's a forgery. It remains a fascinating mystery as to how humans produced it. But it certainly is not evidence of the resurrection. Okay, I'm moving on now.

It could not be forged. That science has proven. How do you forge the widow's mite on both eyes in the Middle Ages? I know you'll run from this discussion, but I appreciate the courage you exhibit just with this response. It's a snapshot. You made a terrible mistake when you got misled among Christians.

Additionally, the blood stains on the face match the blood stains on the Sudarium of Oviedo...as does the blood itself and the DNA of the pollen.

 

[tbeachhead]

Fortunately, Tanakh refutes all the above. God isn't a man, doesn't bleed, doesn't die, doesn't need food nor clothing, etc.

Fortunately, Tanakh describes Messiah perfectly in Isaiah 52/53, and refutes your limited invention. He made His soul/blood a sacrifice for sin.

When you understand the idolatry that is the trinity, you'll see how far way you are.

If you ever begin to understand your own tripartite personhood, you will understand to what degree you are an image bearer. It is not that there is NO image. It is that. WE are supposed to be and to represent HIS image in which and in which likeness we were made. Your limited understanding requires a willingness to be taught by God according to His promise through David and Ezekiel. When you insist on your invention, you are forced to nullify His promise.

 

[tbeachhead]

Flesh, death, etc., are limitations, imperfections.

Nope...Artificial limits are limitations...Resurrection belies your most cherished error.

That isn't God.

You deliberately limit Him, therefore you cannot know Him. You cannot say.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Fortunately, Tanakh describes Messiah perfectly in Isaiah 52/53, and refutes your limited invention. He made His soul/blood a sacrifice for sin.

Ironically, the term Messiah isn't used in Isaiah 52-53.

If you ever begin to understand your own tripartite personhood, you will understand to what degree you are an image bearer. It is not that there is NO image. It is that. WE are supposed to be and to represent HIS image in which and in which likeness we were made. Your limited understanding requires a willingness to be taught by God according to His promise through David and Ezekiel. When you insist on your invention, you are forced to nullify His promise.

The image isn't physically nor a human.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Nope...Artificial limits are limitations...Resurrection belies your most cherished error.

Flesh is a limit. Jesus and the NT admit to this. You can't escape it. Talpiot belies your fantasy.

You deliberately limit Him, therefore you cannot know Him. You cannot say.

Actually, God says Himself He isn't flesh, blood, nor man. So I can say.

 

[tbeachhead]

Understood, but you haven't responded to a lot of posts.

I apologize. This one gave me pause. You make excellent points, and I need to pray before I respond. I have a weakness in a glibness that cannot help understand the questions you raise.

He's called my anointed one in Isa 45:1.

OK...He's called Messiah...but not servant. I don't understand your point then. Both Cyrus and Nechudnezzar are called God's anointed.

No image is spoken of in Isa 53.

The actual image on the shroud is described..."14Just as many were appalled at Himf—
His appearance was disfigured beyond that of any man,
and His form was marred beyond human likeness— (The image description is graphic and raw.)
15so He will sprinkleg many nations.
Kings will shut their mouths because of Him.
For they will see what they have not been told,
and they will understand what they have not heard

Isaiah 5:32He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no stately form or majesty to attract us,
no beauty that we should desire Him.
3He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief.
Like one from whom men hide their faces,
He was despised, and we esteemed Him not. (More description. More image.)

Funny that you're the only one that has acknowledged mistakes.

I teach. I value the conversation, and I have no interest in being "right" when I'm wrong. You on the other hand, lose your invention entirely if you relinquish a single detail. You cannot acknowledge that your Messiah was born of a woman as the Last Adam to redeem the dominion the First Adam relinquished.

Yep, we're all in the image of God

Yep He has an Image.

Yep. Angels, Moses, judges, the house of David are called God too.

Paul is not writing in Hebrew. Theos is Greek, and Moses was never called "Theos". Your error fails utterly in the translation.

Yep. He temporarily gave up his throne to be a lowly servant.

You're preaching the gospel. That is the claim Paul the Orthodox Pharisee makes in Philippians.

Rotfl... The actual quote in Isa doesn't reference us bowing to the son. The knees bowing is a dead give away Jesus isn't the one bowed to.

Really? You're wrong again, but you know that. Want to know something else you do not know?

4Who has ascended to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered the wind in His hands?
Who has bound up the waters in His cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is the name of His Son—
surely you know!

I do...You don't and you can't. Your deliberately controllable and limited invention that takes orders from you has no Son...

Being dead is pretty confined. So are the diseases associated with AB+, coming from two human parents, etc.

Nope...on both counts. "Being" dead when the purpose is to possess forever the keys to death as Messiah did is not confining. Sin is confining. Resurrection is liberating. You cannot understand this, because you cannot see the Kingdom of God.

And you keep bringing up a losing argument...What was Adam's blood type? Or do you suggest he didn't have one? You keep limiting god, and making your invention less and less capable.

Yep, you haven't done too well.

Well enough...but I haven't answered all your errors either, becauase you're withholding many, and they will only slowly leak out.

Yep, he was imperfect and prayed for salvation.

You're so funny...You know what perfect means and you still use the term:

He laid immortality aside and took on the role of Adam. He was thus tested in every way like as we...and is therefore able to fulfill the role of Priest to the uttermost, because he took on all the limitations of mortality and yet, unlike your father Adam, without sin.

He is now perfected...God's name "I-Am-wWhat-I-Will-Be..." A Christian's new name: I-am-becoming-what-He-already-is. That is how chesed/love works, btw.

Yes, He said He can't lie, and men do. Follow that line...

You didn't look them up...Philippians 2:6,7

Here's a news flash. Jews aren't buried in tefillin, I doubt the coins as they reference Caesar, etc.

Clearly I know of an exception. You do too, but the implications destroy your invention...

No, only as a dead wanna be.

Despite the clear evidence. Your blindness is a handicap that your Messiah recognized and called out publicly. That's why your fathers, too, thought Messiah should be stoned, thrown from a cliff and ultimately handed over to the Gentiles in obedience to the scriptures, as your fathers had already done one by one to the prophets before Him, as He pointed so correctly out.

 

[tbeachhead]

Flesh is a limit. Jesus and the NT admit to this. You can't escape it. Talpiot belies your fantasy.

Flesh WAS a limit MESSIAH willingly took on, temporarily, to raise us to the eternity He had first designed into Adam before the fall. The Tree of Life was planted for Adam to enjoy. Adam lost that privilege. Your Messiah won it back for your sake first, then for all Gentiles. I was included by the Grace of an UNLIMITED God Who can do all things, and well.

Actually, God says Himself He isn't flesh, blood, nor man. So I can say.

When He said it He wasn't. When in the flesh, He didn't say it...and it will ever be true from the moment He arose.

 

[tbeachhead]

Ironically, the term Messiah isn't used in Isaiah 52-53.

It's not ironic. It's deliberate.

It's certainly a stumblingblock for you...lest you see with your eyes, hear with your ears and turn and He heal you.

The image isn't physically nor a human.

The description is indeed both. You cannot read very well...

 

[Jewjitzu]

I apologize. This one gave me pause. You make excellent points, and I need to pray before I respond. I have a weakness in a glibness that cannot help understand the questions you raise.

I'm not being glib, if that's what you're implying.

OK...He's called Messiah...but not servant. I don't understand your point then. Both Cyrus and Nechudnezzar are called God's anointed.

Cyrus is, I don't think Nebu is.

The actual image on the shroud is described..."14Just as many were appalled at Himf—
His appearance was disfigured beyond that of any man,
and His form was marred beyond human likeness— (The image description is graphic and raw.)
15so He will sprinkleg many nations.
Kings will shut their mouths because of Him.
For they will see what they have not been told,
and they will understand what they have not heard

Actually the shroud shows a human likeness, not marred beyond.

Isaiah 5:32He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no stately form or majesty to attract us,
no beauty that we should desire Him.
3He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief.
Like one from whom men hide their faces,
He was despised, and we esteemed Him not. (More description. More image.)

The image doesn't show this.

I teach. I value the conversation, and I have no interest in being "right" when I'm wrong. You on the other hand, lose your invention entirely if you relinquish a single detail. You cannot acknowledge that your Messiah was born of a woman as the Last Adam to redeem the dominion the First Adam relinquished.

I acknowledge that Messiah will have human parents. Nothing says otherwise. Isaiah 7 and it's context debunks Jesus easily.

Yep He has an Image.

God's image isn't physical.

Paul is not writing in Hebrew. Theos is Greek, and Moses was never called "Theos". Your error fails utterly in the translation.

Moses was called elohim. Angels, Judges (Ho Theos), etc., as well.

You're preaching the gospel. That is the claim Paul the Orthodox Pharisee makes in Philippians.

No, what I'm saying is Messiah isn't the God but representative.

Really? You're wrong again, but you know that. Want to know something else you do not know?

I'm not wrong.

I do...You don't and you can't. Your deliberately controllable and limited invention that takes orders from you has no Son...

Israel is His son.

Nope...on both counts. "Being" dead when the purpose is to possess forever the keys to death as Messiah did is not confining. Sin is confining. Resurrection is liberating. You cannot understand this, because you cannot see the Kingdom of God.

I see Jesus died and was laid in Talpiot.

And you keep bringing up a losing argument...What was Adam's blood type? Or do you suggest he didn't have one? You keep limiting god, and making your invention less and less capable.

You did lose on the point of AB+ blood type. My God doesn't have blood with known diseases. So much for being a new Adam.

Well enough...but I haven't answered all your errors either, becauase you're withholding many, and they will only slowly leak out. You're so funny...You know what perfect means and you still use the term:

If you see an error, point it out. But it must be something of scripture not your opinion. You love soliloquys.

He laid immortality aside and took on the role of Adam. He was thus tested in every way like as we...and is therefore able to fulfill the role of Priest to the uttermost, because he took on all the limitations of mortality and yet, unlike your father Adam, without sin.

Sorry, but God isn't man. It's mentioned several times.

He is now perfected...God's name "I-Am-wWhat-I-Will-Be..." A Christian's new name: I-am-becoming-what-He-already-is. That is how chesed/love works, btw.

Being perfected shows he isn't God.

You didn't look them up...Philippians 2:6,7

Yep, your god is limited.

Clearly I know of an exception. You do too, but the implications destroy your invention...

Bring it up.

Despite the clear evidence. Your blindness is a handicap that your Messiah recognized and called out publicly. That's why your fathers, too, thought Messiah should be stoned, thrown from a cliff and ultimately handed over to the Gentiles in obedience to the scriptures, as your fathers had already done one by one to the prophets before Him, as He pointed so correctly out.

That's nice. Gods that die aren't the God.

 

[Jewjitzu]

It's not ironic. It's deliberate.

It's certainly a stumblingblock for you...lest you see with your eyes, hear with your ears and turn and He heal you.

Rotfl... the use of servant and Israel identified as the servant in the previous chapters is pretty clear and your stumbling block.

The description is indeed both. You cannot read very well...

No, God isn't physical. His image in man leads him to rule the world. Knowledge, mercy, etc., Ex 34:6-7.

 

[davbeh2010]

Surely Israel has done wrong in the past. But, false prophets and teachers are still to be put away, including your false ministry.
God never divorced Israel, Jeremiah 33:17-26.
Talpiot says differently.
In the true God's service.

God never divorced Israel, Jeremiah 33:17-26.

According to Jeremiah 3:6-8, Yahweh had put backsliding Israel away and given her a certificate of divorce. In other words, God divorced Israel due to their unfaithfulness. Should I believe the false testimony of Jewjitzu, or should I believe Yahweh? I choose to believe Yahweh, my Savior. https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/3-8.htm

The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 cannot contradict the Scriptures in Jeremiah 3:6-8. (i.e. one divine Source) The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 give an account of a future restoration of Israel. This prophecy is conditional. (i.e. If ... then ...) (i.e. Yahweh's covenant with His servant David may be broken)

In order for Yahweh's covenant with His servant David in Jeremiah 33:17-26 to be fulfilled, Israel's treacherous sister Judah must return to Yahweh with her whole heart, in truthfulness and uprightness, not in deceit and pretense. (i.e. an example of deceitfulness and pretense - God never divorced Israel)

If one does not return to Yahweh with one's whole heart (i.e. in truthfulness and uprightness), one will surely be put away! (i.e. die like men) Repent oh treacherous sister of Israel, repent! (i.e. house of Judah) Remember also, that backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. (i.e. Jeremiah 3:11)


In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

 

[Open Heart]

According to Jeremiah 3:6-8, Yahweh had put backsliding Israel away and given her a certificate of divorce. I

You need to read all the way to the end of the book. Not pause halfway though and think you have the whole story.

 

[davbeh2010]

You need to read all the way to the end of the book. Not pause halfway though and think you have the whole story.

Jeremiah 3:6-8 New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson
6 The Lord said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: “Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot. 7 And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.


Numbers 23:19 New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson
19 “God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?


According to the teachings of Judaism, Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, always tells the truth. What other Scriptures in Jeremiah can possibly contradict Yahweh's truth and honesty revealed in Jeremiah 3:6-8? What part of Jeremiah 3:6-8 can possibly be interpreted by one as meaning that Yahweh intends to deceive and to mislead His people? It's one thing not to understand the Spirit of the law, but to not understand the plain meaning of the Letter of the law should be quite alarming.

One needs to read and understand all of God's revealed truth in Holy Scripture (Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21), by the Spirit and by the Letter of the law (i.e. 2 Timothy 2:15), and not just pause halfway thru and think one has the whole truth. (i.e. "emet")

Revelation 22:21 New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be [1]with you all. Amen.

Footnote: [1] NU with all; M with all the saints


Proverbs 3:34 Revised Standard Version of the Bible
34 Toward the scorners he is scornful,
but to the humble he shows favor.


In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

 

[Jewjitzu]

According to Jeremiah 3:6-8, Yahweh had put backsliding Israel away and given her a certificate of divorce. In other words, God divorced Israel due to their unfaithfulness. Should I believe the false testimony of Jewjitzu, or should I believe Yahweh? I choose to believe Yahweh, my Savior. https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/3-8.htm

It's amazing that you don't understand metaphors of "divorce" and being sent off as was done with the King of North, Israel.

Deut 24:1-4, if you're being strict by the letter of the law, wouldn't allow God to "marry" Israel again.

So, a restoration or remarriage to Israel wouldn't be possible if God actually divorced Israel.

Thankfully God is merciful.

The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 cannot contradict the Scriptures in Jeremiah 3:6-8. (i.e. one divine Source) The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 give an account of a future restoration of Israel. This prophecy is conditional. (i.e. If ... then ...) (i.e. Yahweh's covenant with His servant David may be broken)

See above. You're wrong again.

In order for Yahweh's covenant with His servant David in Jeremiah 33:17-26 to be fulfilled, Israel's treacherous sister Judah must return to Yahweh with her whole heart, in truthfulness and uprightness, not in deceit and pretense. (i.e. an example of deceitfulness and pretense - God never divorced Israel)

You make a good point in that Israel will be forgiven when they return with a full heart, ie, Jesus' blood isn't part of the equation.

If one does not return to Yahweh with one's whole heart (i.e. in truthfulness and uprightness), one will surely be put away! (i.e. die like men) Repent oh treacherous sister of Israel, repent! (i.e. house of Judah) Remember also, that backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. (i.e. Jeremiah 3:11)

Amen. Jesus isn't needed. Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot.

I'd like to see how strict you are with yourself regarding trashing Jesus' blood with your continued sins. No sacrifice remains, correct?

In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

In the true God's service.

 

[Jewjitzu]

According to Jeremiah 3:6-8, Yahweh had put backsliding Israel away and given her a certificate of divorce. In other words, God divorced Israel due to their unfaithfulness. Should I believe the false testimony of Jewjitzu, or should I believe Yahweh? I choose to believe Yahweh, my Savior. https://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/3-8.htm

The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 cannot contradict the Scriptures in Jeremiah 3:6-8. (i.e. one divine Source) The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 give an account of a future restoration of Israel. This prophecy is conditional. (i.e. If ... then ...) (i.e. Yahweh's covenant with His servant David may be broken)

In order for Yahweh's covenant with His servant David in Jeremiah 33:17-26 to be fulfilled, Israel's treacherous sister Judah must return to Yahweh with her whole heart, in truthfulness and uprightness, not in deceit and pretense. (i.e. an example of deceitfulness and pretense - God never divorced Israel)

If one does not return to Yahweh with one's whole heart (i.e. in truthfulness and uprightness), one will surely be put away! (i.e. die like men) Repent oh treacherous sister of Israel, repent! (i.e. house of Judah) Remember also, that backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. (i.e. Jeremiah 3:11)


In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

BTW, God mentions several times He isn't a man? Do you believe that?

 

[davbeh2010]

The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 cannot contradict the Scriptures in Jeremiah 3:6-8. (i.e. one divine Source) The Scriptures in Jeremiah 33:17-26 give an account of a future restoration of Israel. This prophecy is conditional. (i.e. If ... then ...) (i.e. Yahweh's covenant with His servant David may be broken)

See above. You're wrong again.

Jeremiah 33:20-21 Revised Standard Version of the Bible
20 “Thus says the Lord: If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night will not come at their appointed time, 21 then also my covenant with David my servant may be broken, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and my covenant with the Levitical priests my ministers.


See above. You're wrong again.

In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

 

[davbeh2010]

You make a good point in that Israel will be forgiven when they return with a full heart, ie, Jesus' blood isn't part of the equation.

Matthew 27:25 Revised Standard Version of the Bible
25 And all the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”


In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

 

[Jewjitzu]

Jeremiah 33:20-21 Revised Standard Version of the Bible
20 “Thus says the Lord: If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night will not come at their appointed time, 21 then also my covenant with David my servant may be broken, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and my covenant with the Levitical priests my ministers.


See above. You're wrong again.

Day and night still exist so you're wrong yet again. BTW, the house of David still exists as well, Zechariah 12:12-13, as do the Levites.

In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

In the true God's service.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Matthew 27:25 Revised Standard Version of the Bible
25 And all the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”

Jeremiah 33:17-26 blew you away. It was hilarious that you quoted it yourself.

Everything you post in the Judaism forum gets debunked. Rotfl...

In Messiah’s (Christ’s) service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

In the true God's service.