wof is dead

[tbeachhead]

Go ahead beachie, explain to Photine here "WHY" Jesus is "NOT" the Holy Spirit using English. Also, explain to him why your not a Binitarian. And while your at it maybe you can explain to him that Wof teaches Jesus went to hell was punished by Satan and when God the Father blurted out, "Let Him be" He ended up being born again in hell.

In Hinn,
james

Why? Did you run out of steam, Jamesie? You're adequate to the task. Always have been. The One Who said, "I will pour out My Spirit," did not pour out Jesus on the Day of Pentecost...But, in a church where the Holy Spirit is a stranger, and there is no evidence of His presence but in the name it and claim it claims of the guy on the platform, confusion is a necessary side effect of the doctrine.

 

[Photine]

Why? Did you run out of steam, Jamesie? You're adequate to the task. Always have been. The One Who said, "I will pour out My Spirit," did not pour out Jesus on the Day of Pentecost...But, in a church where the Holy Spirit is a stranger, and there is no evidence of His presence but in the name it and claim it claims of the guy on the platform, confusion is a necessary side effect of the doctrine.

Why no response to my post? Too hot for you to handle?

 

[Photine]

The One Who said, "I will pour out My Spirit," did not pour out Jesus on the Day of Pentecost...

Psalm 22:14
I am poured out like water

Psalm 72:6
He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.

John 14:18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you

John 14:20
I am in you

2 Cor 3:17
The Lord is The Spirit

2 Sam 23:2
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me;
His Word was on my tongue.

Lam 4:20
Messiah, the Breath of our nostrils

1 Cor 15:45
Christ, a Life-Giving Spirit

Psalm 33:6
By the Word of the Lord were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the Breath of His mouth.

 

[Photine]

Why? Did you run out of steam, Jamesie? You're adequate to the task. Always have been.

Awww you guys are so cute!

 

[Photine]

The One Who said, "I will pour out My Spirit," did not pour out Jesus on the Day of Pentecost...

2 Cor 4:6-7
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

CHRIST is in our hearts. Not "the third person of the trinity".

Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.

 

[tbeachhead]

OK...I didn't identify you with a cult...but let's go, and see if I can help you understand. It won't be easy when your methodology involves machine gun prooftext tortured out of context

:

2 Cor 3:17 identifies Christ as the Lord who is the Spirit (The Holy Spirit).

Actually, it doesn't. You added to the text. I quoted the actual Greek, but you're digging into a syntax that is not as dogmatic in Greek as it is in English, and you're misreading what the verse says. It does not identify "Christ" as the Lord who is the Spirit. It identifies the Spirit, Who is Lord...The Lordship of the Spirit is no more in dispute than the Lordship of Christ, or the Lordship of the Father. It's clear by your posts that you are very confused on this point...and so the biltzkreig of proof texts:

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

It does not say "Christ is the Spirit." You're making unnecessary connections that Paul is not making, and you're missing the point in doing so.

2 Corinthians 4:3-5
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

Do you notice you're hopping all over the place? Are you looking for "veiled"?

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

So you can pray along these lines, and I'll pray that the veil be taken away from your eyes. This is just a bizarre post.

 

[tbeachhead]

ONLY Christ is in view in 2 Cor 3:17.

Nope...Christ isn't mentioned until you add "Christ." That's not how exegesis works.

 

[Photine]

Actually, it doesn't. You added to the text.

It does not say "Christ is the Spirit." You're making unnecessary connections that Paul is not making, and you're missing the point in doing so.

I didn't add to the text. Christ is identified as the Lord who is the Spirit in verse 14.

Do you notice you're hopping all over the place? Are you looking for "veiled"?

So you can pray along these lines, and I'll pray that the veil be taken away from your eyes. This is just a bizarre post.

All those verses are literally connected. I'm not hopping around.

 

[Photine]

Nope...Christ isn't mentioned until you add "Christ." That's not how exegesis works.

Verse 2 Cor 3:14 says Christ.

So does 2 Cor 4:4,5.

 

[tbeachhead]

Seems like you don't believe Paul's doctrine too. Paul wasn't a trinitarian, lol. He was a binitarian.

How did you get that from what I wrote? I was endeavoring to answer your question as to what WoF is from a WoFer's perspective. This response is singularly disappointing. You "seem" to run with a "seems like," with total strangers?

BTW...God is Trinitarian, being Father and Spirit and Word, all Three as The Creator...Paul, in God's Image, Body Soul and Spirit, understood and taught something that you seem to have a mental block with. We can help you, but the arrogance of your post needs to be attenuated if you want to gain anything from the encounter.

 

[Photine]

At NO point does Paul introduce a "the third person of the trinity" in the text.

 

[Photine]

BTW...God is Trinitarian, being Father and Spirit and Word, all Three as The Creator...Paul, in God's Image, Body Soul and Spirit, understood and taught something that you seem to have a mental block with. We can help you, but the arrogance of your post needs to be attenuated if you want to gain anything from the encounter.

ONLY the Son truly knows the Father (Matt 11:27).

No "trinity".

 

[tbeachhead]

I didn't add to the text. Christ is identified as the Lord who is the Spirit in verse 14.



All those verses are literally connected. I'm not hopping around.

"Ho de kyrios to pneuma estin." Kyrios is "Lord". Not Xristos "Christ." You are wrong, and the syntax does not lend itself to your dogmatic misunderstanding. Sorry. You did not study Greek.

 

[Photine]

How did you get that from what I wrote? I was endeavoring to answer your question as to what WoF is from a WoFer's perspective. This response is singularly disappointing. You "seem" to run with a "seems like," with total strangers?

YOU SAID: "Typically we have what those who call themselves the "orthodoxy" (though they have left Paul's doctrine for the inventions of centuries of impotent traditions that nullify the Word)"

But YOU are doing that with 2 Cor 3:17.

 

[Photine]

"Ho de kyrios to pneuma estin." Kyrios is "Lord". Not Xristos "Christ." You are wrong, and the syntax does not lend itself to your dogmatic misunderstanding. Sorry. You did not study Greek.

The Lord who is The Spirit is identified as Christ in Vs 14. Got blinders on eh?

 

[tbeachhead]

ONLY the Son truly knows the Father (Matt 11:27).

No "trinity".

You're suggesting this is an argument? We are created in His image, body and soul and spirit...He has Body/Word that fashions nature, Father/Will that designs, and Spirit/Breath that enlivens and functions as the life.

This doctrine is all through the scripture...not in the imagination of a trinitarian, from Genesis 1...where God created the heavens and the earth, the spirit brooded, and the Word, without which was not anything made that was made, was spoken. Light became.

We have a body...the soul of our body is in the blood...the life of the blood is the breath thereof. It's all there. You're stumbling over your own misunderstanding and creating needles division. Paul understood all of this, and I can take you throughout his epistles, remaining in context, to show that he actually understands the Old Testament principles of creation that you are denying.

 

[Photine]

You're suggesting this is an argument?

You have no argument against it.

 

[Photine]

We are created in His image,

Yep, male and female. A binity not a trinity.

P.s.: man is flesh and spirit. Again, a binity.

 

[Photine]

.He has Body/Word that fashions nature, Father/Will that designs, and Spirit/Breath that enlivens and functions as the life.

False.

The Word is The Spirit.

2 Cor 3:17
The Lord is The Spirit

2 Sam 23:2
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me;
His Word was on my tongue.

Lam 4:20
Messiah, the Breath of our nostrils

1 Cor 15:45
Christ, a Life-Giving Spirit

Ps 33:6
By the Word of the Lord were the heavens made, and all the host of them by the Breath of His mouth.

 

[tbeachhead]

YOU SAID: "Typically we have what those who call themselves the "orthodoxy" (though they have left Paul's doctrine for the inventions of centuries of impotent traditions that nullify the Word)"

But YOU are doing that with 2 Cor 3:17.

I've explained to you that you're misreading 2 Cor 3:17 to buttress your misunderstanding. It's not a "proof text" at all...and you're bucking Paul's point and his doctrine to highlight the division you want between. us. What has your dogma bought you, but division and a license to disobey Jesus' commandment?