Identifying Jehovah in the New Testament

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Lilel01

Well-known member
Does the NT clearly identify that the God spoken of by Jesus Christ and Christians is the same Jehovah mentioned in the pre-Christian Scriptures?
Did Jesus identify Jehovah (God in pre-Christian Scriptures) as his own GOD that he speaks of many times?
Did Christian writers identify Jehovah as their God and Jesus' God?
 
Jesus told the Jews who his Father was:

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

To his "brothers" he sent a message when he resurrected with the woman to whom he appeared first, saying:

John 20:17 " (...) go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Who did Jesus' disciples believe to be their Father and God?
 
Lilel01 said:
Jesus told the Jews who his Father was:

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

To his "brothers" he sent a message when he resurrected with the woman to whom he appeared first, saying:

John 20:17 " (...) go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Who did Jesus' disciples believe to be their Father and God?
Click to expand...
After His resurrection The Disciples knew The Father, Son, Holy Spirit is their God.
 
Lilel01 said:
Who did Jesus' disciples believe to be their Father and God?
Click to expand...

Yahweh (GOD)

1 Corinthians 8:6... But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Deuteronomy 6:4... Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God is one Yahweh:

Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.


P.S.

Here is an overview of what I believe...
GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD…
English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

…is spirit…
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

…and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

…GOD is also in the universe as spirit…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

…GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God…
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

…GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God…
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

…and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Here is a little more detail of what I believe...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

Here is an analogy of what I believe...
At a Bible study, the teacher says...
"I would like to give an analogy of how the second century Christians understood the distinctions of the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD."
The teacher turns off the lights.
"The Bible says GOD is spirit, so imagine that all the air in the world represents GOD."
"There is only one GOD and he is everywhere, he is omnipresent."
"And imagine for eternity there is nothing but air, nothing but GOD."
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
The teacher holds an air balloon in front of them and turns on the lights.
"Instantly we have this room (which represents the universe) and we have an air balloon (which represents the Son) in addition to the eternal air (which represents the Father)."
"There is only one air (one GOD), and that air is omnipresent."
"But for clarity, we can distinguish between the eternal air, the air inside the room, and the air inside the balloon."
"The eternal air would represent the Father, the air inside the room (inside the universe) would represent the Spirit, and the air inside the balloon (incarnate in the universe) would represent the Son."
"So when someone asks, are you saying the Son is the Father? In other words, is the air in the balloon the eternal air? My answer would be, in the sense that the air in the balloon is the eternal air, Yes. The Son is the Father."
"But it would be more proper to say, air is the eternal air and the air in the room and the air in the balloon. GOD is the Father and the Spirit and the Son."
"So now we have the Father (the eternal air), the Spirit (the air inside), and the Son (the air in the balloon)."
"In our analogy, a balloon represents human nature. So the Son is human nature fully indwelt by air (GOD)."
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
The teacher brings out a basket of water balloons.
"Now these water balloons represent each of us. We are human nature (the balloon) indwelt by our spirit (the water)."
"So the Son has human nature just like we do (represented by the balloons), but the difference being..."
"Whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us (represented by the water), GOD himself (represented by the air) became the spirit and soul of Jesus."
 
A Bible student can identify Jehovah in the New Testament very easy. I can think of dozens of passages that clearly speak of Jehovah. This is one of them:

Acts 5:30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one (...) to his right hand (...)

That is Peter speaking to the members of the Sanhedrin, who were trying to prohibit Christians from preaching Jesus as Messiah. Who does Peter refer to as "the God of the forefathers" of the Jews?
 
Lilel01 said:
Does the NT clearly identify that the God spoken of by Jesus Christ and Christians is the same Jehovah mentioned in the pre-Christian Scriptures?
Did Jesus identify Jehovah (God in pre-Christian Scriptures) as his own GOD that he speaks of many times?
Did Christian writers identify Jehovah as their God and Jesus' God?
Click to expand...
Yes, Jesus identified Jehovah The Father as His God.
Yes, Christian writers identified Jehovah, The Father, Son, Holy Spirit as their God.
 
Lilel01 said:
A Bible student can identify Jehovah in the New Testament very easy. I can think of dozens of passages that clearly speak of Jehovah. This is one of them:

Acts 5:30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one (...) to his right hand (...)

That is Peter speaking to the members of the Sanhedrin, who were trying to prohibit Christians from preaching Jesus as Messiah. Who does Peter refer to as "the God of the forefathers" of the Jews?
Click to expand...
GOD.
Next question.......................
 
We can identify Jehovah in the prayer of the apostles just released after the members of the Jewish Sanhedrian had captured them for preaching Jesus as Messiah of God.

Acts 4:23 After being released, they went to their own people and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 On hearing this, they raised their voices with one accord to God and said:

“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

Who were they praying to, and according to the point of view they express in their prayer to God, what relationship did Jesus have to their God?
 
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Lilel01 said:
We can identify Jehovah in the prayer of the apostles just released after the members of the Jewish Sanhedrian had captured them for preaching Jesus as Messiah of God.

Acts 4:23 After being released, they went to their own people and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 On hearing this, they raised their voices with one accord to God and said:

“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

Who were they praying to, and according to the point of view they express in their prayer to God, what relationship did Jesus have to their God?
Click to expand...
They were praying to God and Jesus is THE Son of God.
 
In the prayer the apostles prayed on that occasion, we can learn several things. Look again at the words that they spoke to God.

Acts 4:24 (...) “Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

Did you notice that in that prayer to God the Scripture of Psalm 2 is quoted?

Psal. 2:1 Why are the nations agitated And the peoples muttering an empty thing? 2 The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.

In this Psalm it is stated with complete clarity that Jesus is the anointed of Jehovah. It is obvious that Christians knew the difference between Jehovah God and his Son Jesus. Actually, in their prayer to Jehovah, they mention Jesus as Jehovah's "servant", not as equal to God.
 
Let's look at another way to identify Jehovah in the Christian Scriptures. If we read the Pentateuch carefully, we will realize that Jehovah told Moses that he would raise up a prophet like himself in the future:

Deut. 18:15 Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to him. 16 This is in response to what you asked of Jehovah your God in Horʹeb on the day of the assembly when you said, ‘Do not let me hear the voice of Jehovah my God or see this great fire anymore, so that I do not die.’ 17 Then Jehovah said to me, ‘What they have said is good. 18 I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. 19 Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name.

We know that this Moses-like profet was Jesus, the Messiah, because the NT tells us so:

Acts 3:18 But in this way God has fulfilled the things he announced beforehand through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer.
19 “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself 20 and he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus. 21 Heaven must hold this one within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old. 22 In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you. 23 Indeed, anyone who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And all the prophets from Samuel and those who followed him, as many as have spoken, have also plainly declared these days.

... so we can see Jehovah again in the NT, sending Jesus as his prophet "like Moses", just as he had promised more than 1500 years before to Moses and his people Israel.
 
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Lilel01 said:
In the prayer the apostles prayed on that occasion, we can learn several things. Look again at the words that they spoke to God.

Acts 4:24 (...) “Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

Did you notice that in that prayer to God the Scripture of Psalm 2 is quoted?

Psal. 2:1 Why are the nations agitated And the peoples muttering an empty thing? 2 The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.

In this Psalm it is stated with complete clarity that Jesus is the anointed of Jehovah. It is obvious that Christians knew the difference between Jehovah God and his Son Jesus. Actually, in their prayer to Jehovah, they mention Jesus as Jehovah's "servant", not as equal to God.
Click to expand...
Indeed Christians know the distinction between Father and Son.
 
Lilel01 said:
Let's look at another way to identify Jehovah in the Christian Scriptures. If we read the Pentateuch carefully, we will realize that Jehovah told Moses that he would raise up a prophet like himself in the future:

Deut. 18:15 Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to him. 16 This is in response to what you asked of Jehovah your God in Horʹeb on the day of the assembly when you said, ‘Do not let me hear the voice of Jehovah my God or see this great fire anymore, so that I do not die.’ 17 Then Jehovah said to me, ‘What they have said is good. 18 I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. 19 Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name.

We know that this Moses-like profet was Jesus, the Messiah, because the NT tells us so:

Acts 3:18 But in this way God has fulfilled the things he announced beforehand through the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ would suffer.
19 “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself 20 and he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus. 21 Heaven must hold this one within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old. 22 In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you. 23 Indeed, anyone who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And all the prophets from Samuel and those who followed him, as many as have spoken, have also plainly declared these days.

... so we can see Jehovah again in the NT, sending Jesus as his prophet "like Moses", just as he had promised more than 1500 years before to Moses and his people Israel.
Click to expand...
We can also see Jesus Christ as Jehovah Himself in the flesh. Mark 1:1-3.
 
johnny guitar said:
We can also see Jesus Christ as Jehovah Himself in the flesh. Mark 1:1-3.
Click to expand...

I DO see Jesus Christ as Jehovah Himself in the flesh !!!

In other words...

"Jehovah Himself" is synonymous for "JEHOVAH".

Psalm 83:18... That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Do you agree?

Or do you believe one term refers to a Person whereas the other term does NOT?
 
Yahchristian said:
I DO see Jesus Christ as Jehovah Himself in the flesh !!!

In other words...

"Jehovah Himself" is synonymous for "JEHOVAH".

Psalm 83:18... That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Do you agree?

Or do you believe one term refers to a Person whereas the other term does NOT?
Click to expand...
Depends on the context. In Mark 1:1-3 clearly ONE Person is in view.
In Psalm 83:18 one Person is NOT referred to.
 
johnny guitar said:
Depends on the context. In Mark 1:1-3 clearly ONE Person is in view.
In Psalm 83:18 one Person is NOT referred to.
Click to expand...

So according to TRINITARIANS...

"Jehovah Himself" may or may not refer to "Jehovah". It depends on context.

Whereas I would say, of course "Jehovah Himself" always refers to "Jehovah".

According to English grammar, "Jehovah" is the referent of the pronoun "Himself" in the phrase "Jehovah Himself".
 
Yahchristian said:
So according to TRINITARIANS...

"Jehovah Himself" may or may not refer to "Jehovah". It depends on context.

Whereas I would say, of course "Jehovah Himself" always refers to "Jehovah".

According to English grammar, "Jehovah" is the referent of the pronoun "Himself" in the phrase "Jehovah Himself".
Click to expand...
Strawman.
Jehovah may refer to ANY ONE of The THREE Persons or to ALL of them depending on the context.
 
Another way to identify Jehovah in the Christian Scriptures is related to this Hebrew text:

Psal.110:1 Jehovah declared to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

According to that Psalm, who would sit Jesus at the right hand of Him?

That is the only pre-Christian Scriptures' text that tells us about that prophecy. However, it is not the only one in the entire Bible, because in the Christian Scriptures it is repeated many times that GOD would seat Jesus at the right hand of him ... and as we clearly see, that GOD is Jehovah.

Eph. 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him. 18 He has enlightened the eyes of your heart, so that you may know to what hope he called you, what glorious riches he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones, 19 and how surpassing the greatness of his power is toward us believers. It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, 20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come. 22 He also subjected all things under his feet and made him head over all things with regard to the congregation, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills up all things in all.
 
Lilel01 said:
Another way to identify Jehovah in the Christian Scriptures is related to this Hebrew text:

Psal.110:1 Jehovah declared to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

According to that Psalm, who would sit Jesus at the right hand of Him?

That is the only pre-Christian Scriptures' text that tells us about that prophecy. However, it is not the only one in the entire Bible, because in the Christian Scriptures it is repeated many times that GOD would seat Jesus at the right hand of him ... and as we clearly see, that GOD is Jehovah.

Eph. 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the accurate knowledge of him. 18 He has enlightened the eyes of your heart, so that you may know to what hope he called you, what glorious riches he holds as an inheritance for the holy ones, 19 and how surpassing the greatness of his power is toward us believers. It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, 20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come. 22 He also subjected all things under his feet and made him head over all things with regard to the congregation, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills up all things in all.
Click to expand...
Yes, The Son sits at the right hand of The Father in total EQUALITY.
 
johnny guitar said:
Strawman.
Jehovah may refer to ANY ONE of The THREE Persons or to ALL of them depending on the context.
Click to expand...

Can Jehovah refer to TWO Persons in certain context?

Or does the name Jehovah only refer to either ONE Person or THREE Persons, but never TWO Persons?

For example...

Jehovah did not manifest in the flesh.

In that statement...

Jehovah cannot refer to the second divine Person.
Jehovah cannot refer to all three divine Persons.
Jehovah could refer to the first or third divine Persons.
 
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