Tongues shall cease. - 1 Cor 13:8

(cont.)
Now I will say that in no way do I endorse the ‘church fathers’ so-called. Many of them had false teachings. The title they were given by the religious system is unbiblical in itself, Matthew 23:9. But here is what one of them had to say about the ancient form of the pentecostalist religion, known as Montanism.

Eusebius:

“Montanus, in his unbridled ambition to reach the top, laid himself open to the adversary, was filled with spiritual excitement and suddenly fell into a kind of trance and unnatural ecstasy. He raved, and began to chatter and talk nonsense, prophesying in a way that conflicted with the practice of the Church handed down generation by generation from the beginning. Of those who listened at that time to his sham utterances some were annoyed, regarding him as possessed, a demoniac in the grip of a spirit of error, a disturber of the masses. They rebuked him and tried to stop his chatter, remembering the distinction drawn by the Lord, and His warning to guard vigilantly against the coming of false prophets…. Then he secretly stirred up and inflamed minds closed to the true Faith, raising up in this way two others—women whom he filled with the sham spirit, so that they chattered crazily, inopportunely, and wildly, like Montanus himself.”

Interesting, notice the beginning..’ambition to reach the top’. And today, the pentecostalist & charismaticist religions combine for 500-600 million deceived adherents worldwide, only exceeded in numbers by the pagan roman catholic religion which holds over 1 billion deceived adherents worldwide. Many of the wealthiest and most popular modern pastors or ‘ministers’ on earth are of the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions. Which is why I found that ‘ambition to reach the top’ comment particularly interesting.

Also of note in regards to the manmade doctrine of ‘unknown tongues’, the word ‘unknown’ is not even found in the original Greek text. It was added to the KJV by the translators in an attempt to make the passage easier to understand, but the addition was twisted out of intended meaning by members of the Wesleyan (un)Holiness cult, and used to create the foundation of an entire false doctrine. As you see, there was no ‘pentecostalists’ or charismaticists until well after the KJV translation..aside from the Montanism cult and a few other fringe heretics throughout history.

Now for my own personal experience with adherents of this manmade religious movement. I will never forget the first. I had been fellowshipping with someone for several weeks..had my concerns, however I gave them the benefit of the doubt, didn’t want to be so ‘judgmental’, but the truth is, it would have been righteous judgment (John 7:24).

As a side note, I am sure we have all heard of ‘friendship evangelism’ before, but this was my first experience with ‘seduction evangelism’ and that was this devilish woman’s whole M.O. Turns out, people are mere disposable objects to her, only to be used for her entertainment and also validation. I remember the exact moment she mentioned this ‘Holy Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues’ experience of hers. The exact feeling I had at that moment was that of the uneasy, shocking, terrifying moment in a horror film. That was God warning me right then and there to get away. But it was too late. In the time leading up to this, that woman had been deceiving me into thinking she was someone she was not, to get me to fall for her. It turns out she was a covert narcissist. And in the following months I was exposed to the most insidious, demonic treatment I had ever experienced in my entire life, by far and away. Before my conversion to the Christian Faith, I ran with all sorts of people. Drunks, druggies, serial fornicators, gangsters, dope dealers, occultists, even aesthetic satanists and more..’sinners’ of many kinds, yet they were all saints compared to this so-called ‘Christian’ woman. Overtime the mask she wore to get me to fall for her began to slip, and when confronted with the truth (gently mind you) she ran and hid like a lowlife coward. Good trees don’t bring forth such vile, evil fruit. There was plenty of other red flags early on but I wanted to give that person the benefit of the doubt. But the truth is, I sold out on God during the time I was dealing with that wicked person. So He allowed me to go through the pain that ensued. However, what the devil and his minions intended for evil, God turned the tables..Genesis 50:20. I cannot praise God enough for all He has done.

The others whom I have encountered who adhere to the false signs and lying wonders movements, they also tend to hold multiple narcissistic tendencies as well. Their ‘faith’ revolves around a very self-centered foundation, rather than service to God and helping Him carry out His will in His battle against evil. An attempt to exploit my Lord for their own personal, selfish gain or recognition. Another example of the narcissistic tendencies within this movement would be that they tend to gaslight their opposition, after their distorting of the usual verses from Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians 14 fails. Gaslighting is really just a form of witchcraft, where they lie with the endgame being to get the other party to question their take on reality. I’ve also encountered a common theme of selfishness, as well as pseudo-spiritual grandstanding by the pentecostalist and charismaticist crowd. As well as a focus on having a nice cozy comfy worldly life with plenty materialism and fun..while at the same time these same types feign holiness and piety. It is disgusting to observe. This passage comes to mind:

“(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)”
Philippians 3:18-19

They glory in their manmade tongues doctrine and other pentecostalist hocus pocus, while at the same time such things are their shame. And there is no denying that many new to the Faith were turned off or discouraged by the false signs and lying wonders of this manmade religious movement..falsely believing something is wrong with them because they can’t speak jibberish. It’s pure wickedness.

I won’t even get into much detail on the founders of this false signs and lying wonders movement, such as the demonically inspired heretic John Dowie who allowed his own daughter to suffer with 3rd degree burns over most of her body and die, since he refused to get her proper treatment due to his reliance on fraudulent ‘faith healing’. The scam artist John Lake, who told people that he had healed them of their ailments therefore they did not seek treatment and later died as a result of his lies. He even sold his own flock dead stocks at inflated prices. Then there is the lunatic Smith Wigglesworth, who ‘healed’ people by kicking and punching them. The alcoholic conman AA Allen, who couldn’t even heal his own self of his addictions and died as a result. And many other deceivers. The roots are corrupt, therefore the tree is corrupt, and corrupt trees only bear evil fruit.

It should also be noted I have come across members of this religion who claim they’ve even witnessed ‘5 year old children with no religious experience at all speaking in tongues’..well, the truth is that a 5 year old child with no religious experience at all is not going to be able to possess Godly sorrow that brings about repentance to salvation (2 Corinthians 7:10). So that isn’t the Holy Spirit operating through those unfortunate children. The truth is, the wicked adults have imparted demons into them. It is infuriating to me. To see children being corrupted by this false religion. I do not say this to be unkind, only to warn out of concern for souls. This passage sums up this devilish religious movement to perfection.

“A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Matthew 7:18-23
I Corinthians 14;2 tells us that we are to desire the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.Speaking in tongues with interpretation (vs5) is equal to the the gift of Prophecy. We are to test every spirit to see if it from God. That,s how we do it according to Gods Word. Do you speak in the gift of tongues?
 
I have decided that because there are counterfeit twenty-dollar bills that I shall no longer use them. Nor larger denominations, either! 🙄
 
For clarification, I do not say this to be unkind, only as a seeker of truth and lover of truth, to warn the deceived out of love and concern for their souls and spiritual well-being. Also, I am not part of any religious movement, manmade denomination (they’re all manmade), nor do I attend a religious building or support the religious system in any way. The whole system is corrupt. I am not either of the created religious terms ‘continuist’ or ‘cessationist’. I do believe in miracles and gifts from God, just not how they are taught by manmade religious movements.

This false doctrine of ‘tongues’ in the pentecostalist religion and the charismaticist religion is not only unbiblical, but in the cases where it isn’t being faked, it is demonic. I do not say that to be unkind. But these religious movements are not of God, and there is no neutrality. Anything based on lies is of the devil. Best case scenario is that the babbling is faked. Which still makes it satanic. In the instances where it really is spiritually inspired, it is of an unclean, devilish spirit. Why else is it that wiccans, New Age gurus, Hindus, Eastern Mystics, Shaman medicine men, voodoo witch doctors, and other pagans all practice the same babble that the pentecostalists and other manmade religionists do? In the scriptures, ‘tongues’ refers to actual earthly ethnic languages. Not the incoherent babble practiced by manmade religious movements.

All the evidence one needs to show that these movements are of demonic origin is that the adherents always fixate over selfish, signs and wonders oriented ‘spiritual gifts’ while the vast majority of this religion’s practitioners that I have encountered possess little to zero of the spiritual fruits referenced in Galatians 5:22-23. They fixate over false signs and lying wonders. It is the end all be all of their religion..spiritual grandstanding, along with a get out of hell free card of course. Christ Himself said a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign (Matthew 16:4).

Godly spiritual gifts include belief in Christ, (1 Corinthians 12:3). Understanding of scripture is a spiritual gift. Wisdom is a spiritual gift, knowledge is a spiritual gift. Discerning good from evil is also a spiritual gift. And so on. I do not deny miraculous works either..only the modern religious traditions of men that revolve around them..they seek glory for themselves rather than glorifying God. False signs and lying wonders of modern manmade religious movements is part of the strong delusion referenced in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-13.

Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 14:12 that the point of spiritual gifts is to edify the Church. Nonsensical babble is only a self-absorbed attempt at spiritual grandstanding that does no one any good at all. Far from it even. No one understands it, not even the speaker..so how does the speaker know they aren’t blaspheming God?

In 1 Corinthians 14:10 Paul states the phrase ‘in the world’ which makes it obvious that passage is referring to actual national languages of the earth. Not some mystical heavenly ‘prayer language’ as the pentecostalists claim. That is an unbiblical, manmade doctrine of devils. Some sects of the pentecostalist religion are so wicked they even go on to say that one is not saved unless they speak jibberish. It doesn’t get much more vile, and wicked than that. Who knows how many people have been discouraged and turned away from the faith as a result of such a satanic doctrine. But the truth is, God was protecting these people. He was protecting them from the unclean spirit behind the pentecostalist religion.

There are fewer doctrines in the religious system more satanic than the ‘speaking in tongues as evidence of Holy Spirit baptism’. If this doctrine was legitimate, where is the sounds of mighty rushing wind? (Acts 2:2). Where are the cloven tongues of fire sitting upon the heads of the Pentecostalists? (Acts 2:3).

As we continue on in that passage it becomes crystal clear that ‘tongues’ in the Bible refers to real ethnic languages.

“Men out of EVERY NATION under heaven” (Acts 2:5).

“And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born”
(Acts 2:8).

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11).

It can’t be anymore obvious, ‘tongues’ in the scriptures means real ethnic languages, not incoherent jibberish. And today, that gift is not needed, most of the world speaks English. Many people are multilingual. We also have technology that enables translation. But let’s say that were not the case. Let’s say I move to Mexico and all my new neighbors speak only Spanish. Is God more likely to give me the ability to speak Spanish so that I can discuss God’s truth with them and have fellowship with them? Or is He more likely to make me babble incoherently to myself? Which of those is going to help add to and strengthen the church? Which of those is going to make Christians seem like a cult of loons to unbelievers? Which of those is beneficial to others? Which of those is nothing more than a selfish attempt at spiritual grandstanding? The answer is obvious.

Pentecostalists will often cite 1 Corinthians 14:2-3. as evidence for their manmade doctrine..’speaking mysteries’. Well, an immigrant from Japan who cannot speak English is speaking mysteries to me, I cannot understand him. He is not able to edify me, I cannot understand him.

In that chapter, Paul also refers to the gift of speaking in other languages (speaking in ‘tongues’ is manmade false doctrine) is the lesser of the gifts and he would rather people have the gift of teaching, to edify and strengthen the church (the whole point of spiritual gifts, not selfish holier than thou grandstanding). That said, why is it that people in the pentecostalist religion, and in the charismaticist religion always obsess over what Paul refers to as the lesser of the gifts, as well as ‘faith healing’? The answer is simple, they’re the easiest of the supernatural gifts to fake. Let’s see the pentecostalists and charismaticists perform other supernatural feats listed in Acts. I want to see a pentecostalist raise someone from the dead. Or at least be able to strike their enemies blind. Or free brethren from prison. I want to see a pentecostalist or charismaticist wrangle a venomous snake, such as a spitting cobra, or diamondback rattlesnake. Let’s see it.

Another verse the pentecostalist and charismaticists distort out of context to push their unbiblical ‘tongues’ doctrine is Romans 8:26:

“Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”

‘Cannot be uttered’ which means no speaking, no sound coming out, no talking.

Another false element of the pentecostalist religion and the charismaticist religion is there is always all this talk of ‘revival’ by its adherents. The NT doesn’t speak of ‘revival’, as these false signs and lying wonders movements always talk about, but rather a ‘falling away’ (2 Thessalonians 2:3). And that falling away is manmade religion itself, increasing numbers of unbiblical false religious movements, not ‘lower church attendance’ as some would have folks believe.
Yep, it was not given to create confusion but to remove confusion so that all men might hear the wonderful works of God in their own native language.

However, what we see today is a counterfeit along with other so called operations of the Spirit like being slain in the Spirit and which never occured in the book of Acts which is our guide for the true and correct operation of the Holy Spirit and just as it was laid out for us in the early church in Acts.


It is all part of Mystery Babylon (Mystery Confusion) the apostate church and just as we see in Revelation 17-18 and I don't care if I seem unkind or not, for people need whatever it takes to wake them out of their apostate religious stupor.
 
I Corinthians 14;2 tells us that we are to desire the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.Speaking in tongues with interpretation (vs5) is equal to the the gift of Prophecy. We are to test every spirit to see if it from God. That,s how we do it according to Gods Word. Do you speak in the gift of tongues?
Sure, we are to desire spiritual gifts. And the whole point of said gifts is to add to and strengthen the Church as Paul said. Doing it according to God’s Word would be speaking actual earthly national languages previously foreign to the speaker. Acts chapter 2 makes that so obvious.
 
Yep, it was not given to create confusion but to remove confusion so that all men might hear the wonderful works of God in their own native language.

However, what we see today is a counterfeit along with other so called operations of the Spirit like being slain in the Spirit and which never occured in the book of Acts which is our guide for the true and correct operation of the Holy Spirit and just as it was laid out for us in the early church in Acts.


It is all part of Mystery Babylon (Mystery Confusion) the apostate church and just as we see in Revelation 17-18 and I don't care if I seem unkind or not, for people need whatever it takes to wake them out of their apostate religious stupor.
Yeah very true..in fact that ‘slain in the spirit’ doctrine is actually kundalini awakening. There are videos of Eastern mystics and pentecostalists doing the same exact thing, having spasms on the ground..it is definitely not of God.

I agree, it is so obvious it was given so that all men may hear the wonderful works of God in their own language..

“Men out of EVERY NATION under heaven” (Acts 2:5).

“And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born”
(Acts 2:8).

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11).
 
Sure, we are to desire spiritual gifts. And the whole point of said gifts is to add to and strengthen the Church as Paul said. Doing it according to God’s Word would be speaking actual earthly national languages previously foreign to the speaker. Acts chapter 2 makes that so obvious.

1 Corinthians 14:2​


For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. Its a heavenly language that only God understands it.
 
Yeah very true..in fact that ‘slain in the spirit’ doctrine is actually kundalini awakening. There are videos of Eastern mystics and pentecostalists doing the same exact thing, having spasms on the ground..it is definitely not of God.

I agree, it is so obvious it was given so that all men may hear the wonderful works of God in their own language..

“Men out of EVERY NATION under heaven” (Acts 2:5).

“And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born”
(Acts 2:8).

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11).
Yes and many don't understand the fact that the self edification that Paul speaks of when tongues are not used for this purpose is wrong and not at all good because the original gift was not given for the self to be edified but rather others of other language.
 

1 Corinthians 14:2​


For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. Its a heavenly language that only God understands it.
Yes but Paul is speaking of when the gift is not used correctly for the edification of others, and in which case you are speaking to God, for no one else understands what you are saying and that isn't a good thing either.

To understand this correctly, you need to understand first that when God in Genesis 11, used tongues to confuse men and separate them from one another it was because of their evil influences on one another that he wanted to stop.


However in the NT and now that Jesus had died and rose from the dead and the Holy Spirit was given to all who believe, God wanted to end that confusion through the truth of the gospel message being sent into the world and which was God's purpose for giving this gift and not to make more confusion like how it is being falsely used today in the apostate church.
 

1 Corinthians 14:2​


For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. Its a heavenly language that only God understands it.
You added the ‘heavenly language’ part in yourself. ‘Tongue’ refers to actual earthly languages.

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11).

That passage cannot make it more obvious, and this is why scripture should be used to interpret scripture rather than manmade religious movements that only popped up within the last 100 years or so.

If you were standing next to someone who was speaking Portuguese, they’d be uttering mysteries, you wouldn’t be able to understand.

“There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.”
1 Corinthians 14:10

Key phrase..’in the world’. Therefore there is no such thing as any ‘heavenly language.’

That chapter is Paul directing the brethren on the use of spiritual gifts, and what are the purpose of spiritual gifts? To help the church grow stronger (1 Corinthians 14:12). Speaking in jibberish that no one understands doesn’t do that. The following verse also says that those who speak in a different language should pray that they can interpret what they say.

“Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.“
1 Corinthians 14:13

And if the person cannot interpret it themselves, someone else is to be able to interpret:

“If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.“
1 Corinthians 14:27

So there is no ‘heavenly language‘ that no one understands. The concept is unbiblical. And if no one understands it, it is pointless, because the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole, (1 Corinthians 12:7, 1 Corinthians 14:12), not selfish use, or grandstanding, as is the case with the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions. And they are either faking it, or if it is spiritual it is of an unclean spirit. Wiccans, Eastern mystics, and other pagans do the same exact ‘tongues’ jibberish as the pentecostalists and charismaticists.
 
You added the ‘heavenly language’ part in yourself. ‘Tongue’ refers to actual earthly languages.

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11).

That passage cannot make it more obvious, and this is why scripture should be used to interpret scripture rather than manmade religious movements that only popped up within the last 100 years or so.

If you were standing next to someone who was speaking Portuguese, they’d be uttering mysteries, you wouldn’t be able to understand.

“There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.”
1 Corinthians 14:10

Key phrase..’in the world’. Therefore there is no such thing as any ‘heavenly language.’

That chapter is Paul directing the brethren on the use of spiritual gifts, and what are the purpose of spiritual gifts? To help the church grow stronger (1 Corinthians 14:12). Speaking in jibberish that no one understands doesn’t do that. The following verse also says that those who speak in a different language should pray that they can interpret what they say.

“Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.“
1 Corinthians 14:13

And if the person cannot interpret it themselves, someone else is to be able to interpret:

“If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.“
1 Corinthians 14:27

So there is no ‘heavenly language‘ that no one understands. The concept is unbiblical. And if no one understands it, it is pointless, because the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole, (1 Corinthians 12:7, 1 Corinthians 14:12), not selfish use, or grandstanding, as is the case with the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions. And they are either faking it, or if it is spiritual it is of an unclean spirit. Wiccans, Eastern mystics, and other pagans do the same exact ‘tongues’ jibberish as the pentecostalists and charismaticists.
That is right and the reason why Paul called them "the tongues of men and angel" in 1 Corinthians 13, is not because they are used by angels in heaven because heaven is harmony and not confusion, for there is no need for confusion in heaven, but rather it was the angels who gave the languages along with God in Genesis 11.

This is who he was speaking to when he said "let us go down and confuse their languages". and thus the languages are those of men and the angels who separated them unto men in Genesis 11.
 
You added the ‘heavenly language’ part in yourself. ‘Tongue’ refers to actual earthly languages.

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11).

That passage cannot make it more obvious, and this is why scripture should be used to interpret scripture rather than manmade religious movements that only popped up within the last 100 years or so.

If you were standing next to someone who was speaking Portuguese, they’d be uttering mysteries, you wouldn’t be able to understand.

“There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.”
1 Corinthians 14:10

Key phrase..’in the world’. Therefore there is no such thing as any ‘heavenly language.’

That chapter is Paul directing the brethren on the use of spiritual gifts, and what are the purpose of spiritual gifts? To help the church grow stronger (1 Corinthians 14:12). Speaking in jibberish that no one understands doesn’t do that. The following verse also says that those who speak in a different language should pray that they can interpret what they say.

“Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.“
1 Corinthians 14:13

And if the person cannot interpret it themselves, someone else is to be able to interpret:

“If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.“
1 Corinthians 14:27

So there is no ‘heavenly language‘ that no one understands. The concept is unbiblical. And if no one understands it, it is pointless, because the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole, (1 Corinthians 12:7, 1 Corinthians 14:12), not selfish use, or grandstanding, as is the case with the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions. And they are either faking it, or if it is spiritual it is of an unclean spirit. Wiccans, Eastern mystics, and other pagans do the same exact ‘tongues’ jibberish as the pentecostalists and charismaticists.
What you are referring to is tongues spoken in the congregation. 1 Corinth 14:2 is different because it is not an earthly language. No one but God understands it. I think its pretty simple. Are there abuses in the Body of Christ? I say yes there are.
 
Scripture disagrees with your interpretation. Only God understands the tongues spoken in 14;2.

Zechariah 4:6

: 'Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord Almighty—


There you go again, cherry picking bits of scripture and contorting out of context in attempt to justify a doctrine of devils. That verse has nothing to do with pentecostalist gibberish.

Yes it is pretty simple, you’re the only one complicating it by ignoring the Book Of Acts Ch. 2 where it is made clear ‘tongues’ refers to actual earthly national languages.

You also ignore the fact that the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the Church as a whole, babbling in jibberish no one can understand does not edify the Church. If ‘no one but God understands it’ then that goes against scripture, which says the purpose of spiritual gifts is for the betterment of the Church as a whole.

Also, if no one can understand it, how does the person speaking jibberish know they aren’t blaspheming God?
 
What a bunch of baloney. Good copy and paste.

Here is what 1 Cor. 14 actually means.

1 Corinthians 14:1-2 In context: Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Here is the original Greek is that helps: Διώκετε τὴν ἀγάπην, ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ πνευματικά, μᾶλλον δὲ ἵνα προφητεύητε. 2 ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

This is the definition of tongues. NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. Catch that? No one understands him, not even himself.

Paul also brings into the conversation prophecy. Why? Because he is going to show you a comparison and distinction in the use of tongues. One purpose is that of private prayer, and the other is openly standing in a congregation and making a declaration in tongues, which is considered....wait for it, PROPHECY. And since prophecy is to edify the church, and open tongues as a declaration is a form of prophecy, then there needs to be someone to interpret that prophecy from an unknown language. 1 Corinthians 14:4-5: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues unless someone interprets so that the church may be built up."

NOW, notice the definition for tongues is still the same. It is NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. This is about the USE of tongues, orderly in the Church gathering.

You see, Paul then states HOW to use tongues that are being spoken and declared in the open congregation of the Church in 1 Corinthian 14:13- 16: "Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider2 say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?" As a point, Paul points out how to SPEAK in tongues appropriately as prophecy in Church and acknowledges tongues in prayer by a short compare/contrast of the two in summation. Then he points out in vs.18: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you."

Paul then concludes with this: vs. "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40, but all things should be done decently and in order."

Notice what he said? So in all this rejection people actually proved themselves wrong. People cherry-pick verses that they thought they can take out of context to support what they have decided to believe.
 
What a bunch of baloney. Good copy and paste.

Here is what 1 Cor. 14 actually means.

1 Corinthians 14:1-2 In context: Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Here is the original Greek is that helps: Διώκετε τὴν ἀγάπην, ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ πνευματικά, μᾶλλον δὲ ἵνα προφητεύητε. 2 ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

This is the definition of tongues. NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. Catch that? No one understands him, not even himself.

Paul also brings into the conversation prophecy. Why? Because he is going to show you a comparison and distinction in the use of tongues. One purpose is that of private prayer, and the other is openly standing in a congregation and making a declaration in tongues, which is considered....wait for it, PROPHECY. And since prophecy is to edify the church, and open tongues as a declaration is a form of prophecy, then there needs to be someone to interpret that prophecy from an unknown language. 1 Corinthians 14:4-5: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues unless someone interprets so that the church may be built up."

NOW, notice the definition for tongues is still the same. It is NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. This is about the USE of tongues, orderly in the Church gathering.

You see, Paul then states HOW to use tongues that are being spoken and declared in the open congregation of the Church in 1 Corinthian 14:13- 16: "Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider2 say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?" As a point, Paul points out how to SPEAK in tongues appropriately as prophecy in Church and acknowledges tongues in prayer by a short compare/contrast of the two in summation. Then he points out in vs.18: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you."

Paul then concludes with this: vs. "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40, but all things should be done decently and in order."

Notice what he said? So in all this rejection people actually proved themselves wrong. People cherry-pick verses that they thought they can take out of context to support what they have decided to believe.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact that Paul is addressing the incorrect use of the gifts by the Corinthians because they have moved away from learning truth in the scriptures by the Spirit to their attempting to learn it by the fleshly wisdom of this world through the carnal mind.

See 1 Corinthians 2:13-16 and then 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. They were carnal and therefore they were in error on many issues including the proper use of the gifts and especially tongues.

So when he says "he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks unto God for no man understands him", he is speaking of their improper uses of this gift.

In other words, the way they were abusing it, they were only speaking to God and not to men because only God could understand them and he is by no means saying this is the way it was intended to be used either.

Now then, here is something you need to think about, for why would you need to speak to God in any unknown tongue when he has no problem understanding whatever language you speak being he gave them all in Genesis 11 to begin with?

I will also say this, for Paul very clearly said that this gift shouldn't even be used at all unless there is also an interpreter and yet today Paul's words are ignored completely by many churches and church leaders and yet they believe they are right in there with God when really they couldn't be further from him.
 
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What a bunch of baloney. Good copy and paste.

Here is what 1 Cor. 14 actually means.

1 Corinthians 14:1-2 In context: Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Here is the original Greek is that helps: Διώκετε τὴν ἀγάπην, ζηλοῦτε δὲ τὰ πνευματικά, μᾶλλον δὲ ἵνα προφητεύητε. 2 ὁ γὰρ λαλῶν γλώσσῃ οὐκ ἀνθρώποις λαλεῖ ἀλλὰ θεῷ· οὐδεὶς γὰρ ἀκούει, πνεύματι δὲ λαλεῖ μυστήρια·

This is the definition of tongues. NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. Catch that? No one understands him, not even himself.

Paul also brings into the conversation prophecy. Why? Because he is going to show you a comparison and distinction in the use of tongues. One purpose is that of private prayer, and the other is openly standing in a congregation and making a declaration in tongues, which is considered....wait for it, PROPHECY. And since prophecy is to edify the church, and open tongues as a declaration is a form of prophecy, then there needs to be someone to interpret that prophecy from an unknown language. 1 Corinthians 14:4-5: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues unless someone interprets so that the church may be built up."

NOW, notice the definition for tongues is still the same. It is NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM BECAUSE HE SPEAKS MYSTERIES BY THE SPIRIT. This is about the USE of tongues, orderly in the Church gathering.

You see, Paul then states HOW to use tongues that are being spoken and declared in the open congregation of the Church in 1 Corinthian 14:13- 16: "Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider2 say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?" As a point, Paul points out how to SPEAK in tongues appropriately as prophecy in Church and acknowledges tongues in prayer by a short compare/contrast of the two in summation. Then he points out in vs.18: "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you."

Paul then concludes with this: vs. "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40, but all things should be done decently and in order."

Notice what he said? So in all this rejection people actually proved themselves wrong. People cherry-pick verses that they thought they can take out of context to support what they have decided to believe.
Says ‘good copy and paste’..proceeds to copy and paste from one of his own posts, LOL..’test the spirits’ as it is written..and you’ve just shown yourself to be a hypocrite. I don’t say that to be unkind but what else is someone who accuses others of doing exactly what they are doing? Wait, they also call that narcissistic projection as well. Not good. And the honest truth is, that this is the same exact behavior I have seen time and time again from adherents of the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions. Their ridiculous and unbiblical heresies aside, the spirit of this movement is wicked and full of hypocrisy and other narcissistic tendencies such as attempts to spiritually grandstand. When the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the entire body.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.“
1 John 4:1

That sums up the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions perfectly. It is also hypocritical projection of you to accuse others of cherry picking verses and taking them out of context because again, that is exactly what you are doing.

You pentecostalists constantly ignore the fact that the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole. Babbling in jibberish that no one can understand does the church no good whatsoever. So you’ve already strayed from biblical doctrine with that fact alone.

So your manmade doctrine is based on the claim that Paul goes from speaking about incoherent babbling to ones self (which edifies no one, thus Paul is contradicting himself when he says the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the whole church), then Paul switches up midway through the chapter and now is teaching about incoherent babble to an entire congregation. So it’s settled everyone, there’s two different kinds of jibberish Paul was talking about in the same chapter LOL, just ignore Acts 2 where it makes it clear that ‘tongues’ refers to actual earthly languages understood by others. Just have to keep entirely ignoring the biblical definition of the word ‘tongues’ which is described clearly in Acts 2..real, intelligible national languages that can be interpreted.

Also, do you speak in archaic KJV language in your everyday life? We both know you don’t..so you can drop the ‘tongues’ nonsense and use the modern word of LANGUAGES. That’s how this whole babble doctrine started, misuse of an archaic word for actual ethnic languages.

Also, the way that the charismaticists and pentecostalists practice their devil babble is far from orderly, they look like lunatics.

‘Tongues’ in the scriptures refers to actual earthly languages that can be understood by others..not babble that only creates confusion. The purpose of spiritual gifts are to edify the whole body, not pseudo-spiritual grandstanding.

And how do you know these ‘mysteries’ you utter are not blasphemies? Based on the hypocrisy and other godless narcissistic behavior I have witnessed time and time again from adherents of the pentecostalist religion, I would say it is quite likely they do blaspheme God when they do their vain babblings. It is already clear they completely butcher His Word and twist it way out of context to align with their heresy.
 
You seem to be ignorant of the fact that Paul is addressing the incorrect use of the gifts by the Corinthians because they have moved away from learning truth in the scriptures by the Spirit to their attempting to learn it by the fleshly wisdom of this world through the carnal mind.

See 1 Corinthians 2:13-16 and then 1 Corinthians 3:1-2. They were carnal and therefore they were in error on many issues including the proper use of the gifts and especially tongues.

So when he says "he who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks unto God for no man understands him", he is speaking of their improper uses of this gift.

In other words, the way they were abusing it, they were only speaking to God and not to men because only God could understand them and he is by no means saying this is the way it was intended to be used either.

Now then, here is something you need to think about, for why would you need to speak to God in any unknown tongue when he has no problem understanding whatever language you speak being he gave them all in Genesis 11 to begin with?

I will also say this, for Paul very clearly said that this gift shouldn't even be used at all unless there is also an interpreter and yet today Paul's words are ignored completely by many churches and church leaders and yet they believe they are right in there with God when really they couldn't be further from him.
Paul is not only showing the gifts exist but how to use both prayer language and tongues in open congregation.
 
Says ‘good copy and paste’..proceeds to copy and paste from one of his own posts, LOL..’test the spirits’ as it is written..and you’ve just shown yourself to be a hypocrite. I don’t say that to be unkind but what else is someone who accuses others of doing exactly what they are doing? Wait, they also call that narcissistic projection as well. Not good. And the honest truth is, that this is the same exact behavior I have seen time and time again from adherents of the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions. Their ridiculous and unbiblical heresies aside, the spirit of this movement is wicked and full of hypocrisy and other narcissistic tendencies such as attempts to spiritually grandstand. When the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the entire body.

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.“
1 John 4:1

That sums up the pentecostalist and charismaticist religions perfectly. It is also hypocritical projection of you to accuse others of cherry picking verses and taking them out of context because again, that is exactly what you are doing.

You pentecostalists constantly ignore the fact that the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole. Babbling in jibberish that no one can understand does the church no good whatsoever. So you’ve already strayed from biblical doctrine with that fact alone.

So your manmade doctrine is based on the claim that Paul goes from speaking about incoherent babbling to ones self (which edifies no one, thus Paul is contradicting himself when he says the purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the whole church), then Paul switches up midway through the chapter and now is teaching about incoherent babble to an entire congregation. So it’s settled everyone, there’s two different kinds of jibberish Paul was talking about in the same chapter LOL, just ignore Acts 2 where it makes it clear that ‘tongues’ refers to actual earthly languages understood by others. Just have to keep entirely ignoring the biblical definition of the word ‘tongues’ which is described clearly in Acts 2..real, intelligible national languages that can be interpreted.

Also, do you speak in archaic KJV language in your everyday life? We both know you don’t..so you can drop the ‘tongues’ nonsense and use the modern word of LANGUAGES. That’s how this whole babble doctrine started, misuse of an archaic word for actual ethnic languages.

Also, the way that the charismaticists and pentecostalists practice their devil babble is far from orderly, they look like lunatics.

‘Tongues’ in the scriptures refers to actual earthly languages that can be understood by others..not babble that only creates confusion. The purpose of spiritual gifts are to edify the whole body, not pseudo-spiritual grandstanding.

And how do you know these ‘mysteries’ you utter are not blasphemies? Based on the hypocrisy and other godless narcissistic behavior I have witnessed time and time again from adherents of the pentecostalist religion, I would say it is quite likely they do blaspheme God when they do their vain babblings. It is already clear they completely butcher His Word and twist it way out of context to align with their heresy.
Blah blah blah. You cannot even discern simple exegesis. Apparently you think Satan is more powerful than God so don't obey God because he might counterfeit. Pathetic. Oh and I wrote what I posted unlike you.
 
For clarification, I do not say this to be unkind, only as a seeker of truth and lover of truth, to warn the deceived out of love and concern for their souls and spiritual well-being. Also, I am not part of any religious movement, manmade denomination (they’re all manmade), nor do I attend a religious building or support the religious system in any way. The whole system is corrupt. I am not either of the created religious terms ‘continuist’ or ‘cessationist’. I do believe in miracles and gifts from God, just not how they are taught by manmade religious movements.

This false doctrine of ‘tongues’ in the pentecostalist religion and the charismaticist religion is not only unbiblical, but in the cases where it isn’t being faked, it is demonic. I do not say that to be unkind. But these religious movements are not of God, and there is no neutrality. Anything based on lies is of the devil. Best case scenario is that the babbling is faked. Which still makes it satanic. In the instances where it really is spiritually inspired, it is of an unclean, devilish spirit. Why else is it that wiccans, New Age gurus, Hindus, Eastern Mystics, Shaman medicine men, voodoo witch doctors, and other pagans all practice the same babble that the pentecostalists and other manmade religionists do? In the scriptures, ‘tongues’ refers to actual earthly ethnic languages. Not the incoherent babble practiced by manmade religious movements.

All the evidence one needs to show that these movements are of demonic origin is that the adherents always fixate over selfish, signs and wonders oriented ‘spiritual gifts’ while the vast majority of this religion’s practitioners that I have encountered possess little to zero of the spiritual fruits referenced in Galatians 5:22-23. They fixate over false signs and lying wonders. It is the end all be all of their religion..spiritual grandstanding, along with a get out of hell free card of course. Christ Himself said a wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign (Matthew 16:4).

Godly spiritual gifts include belief in Christ, (1 Corinthians 12:3). Understanding of scripture is a spiritual gift. Wisdom is a spiritual gift, knowledge is a spiritual gift. Discerning good from evil is also a spiritual gift. And so on. I do not deny miraculous works either..only the modern religious traditions of men that revolve around them..they seek glory for themselves rather than glorifying God. False signs and lying wonders of modern manmade religious movements is part of the strong delusion referenced in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-13.

Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 14:12 that the point of spiritual gifts is to edify the Church. Nonsensical babble is only a self-absorbed attempt at spiritual grandstanding that does no one any good at all. Far from it even. No one understands it, not even the speaker..so how does the speaker know they aren’t blaspheming God?

In 1 Corinthians 14:10 Paul states the phrase ‘in the world’ which makes it obvious that passage is referring to actual national languages of the earth. Not some mystical heavenly ‘prayer language’ as the pentecostalists claim. That is an unbiblical, manmade doctrine of devils. Some sects of the pentecostalist religion are so wicked they even go on to say that one is not saved unless they speak jibberish. It doesn’t get much more vile, and wicked than that. Who knows how many people have been discouraged and turned away from the faith as a result of such a satanic doctrine. But the truth is, God was protecting these people. He was protecting them from the unclean spirit behind the pentecostalist religion.

There are fewer doctrines in the religious system more satanic than the ‘speaking in tongues as evidence of Holy Spirit baptism’. If this doctrine was legitimate, where is the sounds of mighty rushing wind? (Acts 2:2). Where are the cloven tongues of fire sitting upon the heads of the Pentecostalists? (Acts 2:3).

As we continue on in that passage it becomes crystal clear that ‘tongues’ in the Bible refers to real ethnic languages.

“Men out of EVERY NATION under heaven” (Acts 2:5).

“And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born”
(Acts 2:8).

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God” (Acts 2:9-11).

It can’t be anymore obvious, ‘tongues’ in the scriptures means real ethnic languages, not incoherent jibberish. And today, that gift is not needed, most of the world speaks English. Many people are multilingual. We also have technology that enables translation. But let’s say that were not the case. Let’s say I move to Mexico and all my new neighbors speak only Spanish. Is God more likely to give me the ability to speak Spanish so that I can discuss God’s truth with them and have fellowship with them? Or is He more likely to make me babble incoherently to myself? Which of those is going to help add to and strengthen the church? Which of those is going to make Christians seem like a cult of loons to unbelievers? Which of those is beneficial to others? Which of those is nothing more than a selfish attempt at spiritual grandstanding? The answer is obvious.

Pentecostalists will often cite 1 Corinthians 14:2-3. as evidence for their manmade doctrine..’speaking mysteries’. Well, an immigrant from Japan who cannot speak English is speaking mysteries to me, I cannot understand him. He is not able to edify me, I cannot understand him.

In that chapter, Paul also refers to the gift of speaking in other languages (speaking in ‘tongues’ is manmade false doctrine) is the lesser of the gifts and he would rather people have the gift of teaching, to edify and strengthen the church (the whole point of spiritual gifts, not selfish holier than thou grandstanding). That said, why is it that people in the pentecostalist religion, and in the charismaticist religion always obsess over what Paul refers to as the lesser of the gifts, as well as ‘faith healing’? The answer is simple, they’re the easiest of the supernatural gifts to fake. Let’s see the pentecostalists and charismaticists perform other supernatural feats listed in Acts. I want to see a pentecostalist raise someone from the dead. Or at least be able to strike their enemies blind. Or free brethren from prison. I want to see a pentecostalist or charismaticist wrangle a venomous snake, such as a spitting cobra, or diamondback rattlesnake. Let’s see it.

Another verse the pentecostalist and charismaticists distort out of context to push their unbiblical ‘tongues’ doctrine is Romans 8:26:

“Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.”

‘Cannot be uttered’ which means no speaking, no sound coming out, no talking.

Another false element of the pentecostalist religion and the charismaticist religion is there is always all this talk of ‘revival’ by its adherents. The NT doesn’t speak of ‘revival’, as these false signs and lying wonders movements always talk about, but rather a ‘falling away’ (2 Thessalonians 2:3). And that falling away is manmade religion itself, increasing numbers of unbiblical false religious movements, not ‘lower church attendance’ as some would have folks believe.
Wow, you sure know how to misinterpret 100% of Scripture!!!
 
Blah blah blah. You cannot even discern simple exegesis. Apparently you think Satan is more powerful than God so don't obey God because he might counterfeit. Pathetic. Oh and I wrote what I posted unlike you.
I wrote what I posted too, Mikey. You know you don’t write in Greek. Why do you seem angry? Unrighteous anger is not of God.

I can discern just fine. You have already established yourself a hypocrite, a projectionist. Resorting to ad hominem name calling (pathetic), while I ever attacked you like that, only your false doctrine. You make it clear what you’re really about. So even if the pentecostalist religion wasn’t heresy, you are surely not a proper ambassador for it. But it is indeed a manmade religious movement.

As for those like yourself who twist Paul’s words to conform to a manmade doctrine less than 200 years old, meditate on this:

“And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:15-17
 
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