Choice

[JDS]

I saw nothing in there about Ephesians.
You know nothing about the scriptures because you are in the wilderness of your own choices.

Some Clarity on Ephesians and the Church​

This is a thread I started. I have not quite figured out how to link to it but my answer is there. Believing the words in the epistle to the Ephesians destroys Calvinism and makes it even more sinful. It is probably on page two or three of this forum.

 

[zerinus]

God's effectual, saving grace at workk.

Acts 10:

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

So do they need to “fear him” and “work righteousness” to be saved or not?

 

[preacher4truth]

Good point.

That's exactly the issue IMHO. Choice Meats Charlie has taken it as far as saying it is a personal achievement. He has also written an article twisting Scripture saying we are to boast about it, which we know is contrary to Scripture. The disingenuous argumentation stemming from him and his ilk in saying it isn't them and is 100% God is nothing but a lie. His statements and arguments I mention here bolster my point.

Unfortunately his disciples are like him; Luke 6:40.

 

[Howie]

Heb 2:9 makes no disctinction, no matter what we might understand.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Only for the children of Abraham (Heb 2:16).

 

[Howie]

Can you cite any translation that translates the way you say it means?
In English the translation just means "all" nothing about distinction. But if you know any place in the Bible where the Greek word "pas" is translated "all without distinction," please post it. Otherwise you are claiming to have a better understanding of translating Greek to English than all the respected translators.

The Greek word, "pas" can mean mean all without exception, or all without distinction depending on the context. In the context of Heb 2, it refers to the descendants of Abraham, or all without distinction (Heb 2:16).

 

[Theo1689]

That's exactly the issue IMHO. Choice Meats Charlie has taken it as far as saying it is a personal achievement. He has also written an article twisting Scripture saying we are to boast about it, which we know is contrary to Scripture. The disingenuous argumentation stemming from him and his ilk in saying it isn't them and is 100% God is nothing but a lie. His statements and arguments I mention here bolster my point.

Unfortunately his disciples are like him; Luke 6:40.

That is one of the reasons I believe he is simply a troll.
He twists a verse claiming it means we should boast about him.
But since it doesn't mention him by name, it must also (then) mean that he should boast about us. Yet he never does, and probably disagrees with that interpretation. So he's not the least bit serious about Scripture.

The fact that he refuses to exegete any of the citations he quotes, or seriously consider anything we offer also proves that point.

 

[Theo1689]

Can you cite any translation that translates the way you say it means?
In English the translation just means "all" nothing about distinction. But if you know any place in the Bible where the Greek word "pas" is translated "all without distinction," please post it. Otherwise you are claiming to have a better understanding of translating Greek to English than all the respected translators.

You are confusing translators with commentators.
They are not the same thing.
You are demanding translators do the job of commentators.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is one of the reasons I believe he is simply a troll.
He twists a verse claiming it means we should boast about him.
But since it doesn't mention him by name, it must also (then) mean that he should boast about us. Yet he never does, and probably disagrees with that interpretation. So he's not the least bit serious about Scripture.

The fact that he refuses to exegete any of the citations he quotes, or seriously consider anything we offer also proves that point.

Yep.

And quoting a wall of scripture and claiming one's self the victor is callow. Posting the same thing over and over? Trollish behavior IMHO.

 

[guest1]

Some Clarity on Ephesians and the Church​

This is a thread I started. I have not quite figured out how to link to it but my answer is there. Believing the words in the epistle to the Ephesians destroys Calvinism and makes it even more sinful. It is probably on page two or three of this forum.

Another dumb claim on your part from the Calvin boogie man.

 

[Reformedguy]

Take a wild guess

Translate? It means I'm a closet Calvinist?

 

[Howie]

Acts 10:

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

So do they need to “fear him” and “work righteousness” to be saved or not?

There are none who are righteous (Rom 3:10ff); therefore, God justifies the ungodly, the unrighteous (Rom 4:5).

 

[PeanutGallery]

Only for the children of Abraham (Heb 2:16).

Are you saying that Jesus took on the nature of Abraham, not the Gentiles?
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[zerinus]

There are none who are righteous (Rom 3:10ff); therefore, God justifies the ungodly, the unrighteous (Rom 4:5).

Pitting one scripture against another doesn’t help your case any. If you want to play that game, I can find lots more verses to support my theology than you can find to support yours. There are hundreds of verses in the Bible, Old and New Testaments, that say that men have been, are, can be, and will be righteous. Here are some:

Genesis 7:

1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Psalm 32:

11 Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.

Psalm 33:

1 Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright.

Psalm 34:

15 The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
• • •
17 The righteous cry, and the Lord heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
• • •
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.

Psalm 37:

25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
• • •
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.

Psalm 55:

22 Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

Psalm 64:

10 The righteous shall be glad in the Lord, and shall trust in him; and all the upright in heart shall glory.

Psalm 68:

3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

Psalm 92:

12 The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.

Psalm 97:

11 Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.
12 Rejoice in the Lord, ye righteous; and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

Psalm 112:

6 Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.

Proverbs 2:

7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.

Proverbs 10:

11 The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.
• • •
25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

Proverbs 12:

7 The wicked are overthrown, and are not: but the house of the righteous shall stand.

Proverbs 15:

29 The Lord is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Proverbs 29:

2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
• • •
16 When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.

Isaiah 3:

10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

Malachi 3:

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Matthew 10:

41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

Matthew 13:

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 25:

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
• • •
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 1:

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

James 5:

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 Peter 3:

12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Your theology is based on 1% of the Bible, mine on 99%. Pitting 1% of the Bible against 99% is not a winning strategy, try again. I could quote more, but this is enough for one post.

 

[ReverendRV]

To start with he inspired the scripture

He calls and empowers men to preach the gospel

And he convicts through his word or by other means

and he regenerated

and indwells

But you say Faith prevenes these two highlights, and basically the rest is attributed to the Bible. You say one of God's Graces is the Gospel; and that's also attributed to Scripture. Yes, the Spirit is the Bible's source; but Leighton says the Gospel is all we need and that bypasses the need for the Holy Ghost to even exist today. Your points also bypass the need for the Holy Spirit to exist today; and you can still be Saved by the Gospel Alone...

I thought you might say what you did. When you agree with me about Grace but continue to teach as if people can believe on there own, I figured you didn't really mean the active Spirit of God does anything to Convert us. The Word is perfect converting the soul; but the Holy Ghost Converts our Human Spirit. Justification through Faith is Conversion...

 

[Howie]

Are you saying that Jesus took on the nature of Abraham, not the Gentiles?

Straw grasping

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 2:16, NASB: For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.

 

[Howie]

Nt

 

[zerinus]

Luke 18:9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be [d]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

That is a parable about being humble. It is about humility versus pride in the sight of God. It is also a parable against self-righteousness. It is not about whether it is possible to be righteous, or to act righteously and approvingly before God or not.

 

[Sethproton]

The Greek word, "pas" can mean mean all without exception, or all without distinction depending on the context. In the context of Heb 2, it refers to the descendants of Abraham, or all without distinction (Heb 2:16).

I did not ask you what it meant. I asked where it was translated the way you claim it means.

 

[Howie]

Pitting one scripture against another doesn’t help your case any. If you want to play that game, I can find lots more verses to support my theology than you can find to support yours. There are hundreds of verses in the Bible, Old and New Testaments, that say that men have been, are, can be, and will be righteous. Here are some:

Genesis 7:

1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Psalm 32:

11 Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, ye righteous: and shout for joy, all ye that are upright in heart.

Psalm 33:

1 Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright.

Psalm 34:

15 The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry.
• • •
17 The righteous cry, and the Lord heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
• • •
19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the Lord delivereth him out of them all.

Psalm 37:

25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
• • •
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.

Psalm 55:

22 Cast thy burden upon the Lord, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.

Psalm 64:

10 The righteous shall be glad in the Lord, and shall trust in him; and all the upright in heart shall glory.

Psalm 68:

3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

Psalm 92:

12 The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.

Psalm 97:

11 Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.
12 Rejoice in the Lord, ye righteous; and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.

Psalm 112:

6 Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be in everlasting remembrance.

Proverbs 2:

7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.

Proverbs 10:

11 The mouth of a righteous man is a well of life: but violence covereth the mouth of the wicked.
• • •
25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

Proverbs 12:

7 The wicked are overthrown, and are not: but the house of the righteous shall stand.

Proverbs 15:

29 The Lord is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Proverbs 29:

2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
• • •
16 When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.

Isaiah 3:

10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

Malachi 3:

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Matthew 10:

41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

Matthew 13:

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 25:

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
• • •
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luke 1:

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

James 5:

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 Peter 3:

12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Your theology is based on 1% of the Bible, mine on 99%. Pitting 1% of the Bible against 99% is not a winning strategy, try again. I could quote more, but this is enough for one post.

Knowing God justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5), it logically follows that those in scripture who are said to be righteous are justified by God. If that is not true, then Scripture is not true.

Think man...

 

[TomFL]

But you say Faith prevenes these two highlights, and basically the rest is attributed to the Bible. You say one of God's Graces is the Gospel; and that's also attributed to Scripture. Yes, the Spirit is the Bible's source; but Leighton says the Gospel is all we need and that bypasses the need for the Holy Ghost to even exist today. Your points also bypass the need for the Holy Spirit to exist today; and you can still be Saved by the Gospel Alone...

I thought you might say what you did. When you agree with me about Grace but continue to teach as if people can believe on there own, I figured you didn't really mean the active Spirit of God does anything to Convert. Justification through Faith is Conversion...

You asked me what the spirit does

I gave you a list

As for believing

Some may indeed believe a gospel presentation

Others may believe through reading scripture

Some may need to to be personally convicted by the spirit

maybe repeatedly

Maybe through a confluencve of circumstances

There is more than one arrow in his quiver

and all his means are sufficient







some may need repeated conviction from the Spirit

He is not limited to just one appriach