The most important doctrine in Scripture- The bodily Resurrection of Jesus !

[SeventhDay]

As far as where people get it, the primary reason is based on the post resurrection appearances of Jesus in which He could be touched. Probably 99.99 percent of the church is taught that Jesus took back his physical body and God glorified it. They hate the idea that I have adopted that in those appearances, nobody on earth was seeing Him as He really is, because they would die if they did, so the resurrected Jesus had to cover Himself in flesh in order for people to understand that He had risen. There are many verses that shed light on this, but a starting point is in understanding that His body after resurrection did not resemble the body He lived in. Nobody ever recognizes him on sight or upon first hearing his voice, which is impossible to explain, considering they walked with him for three years and had last seen Him three days earlier.
Like I said, there is much more and once i was directed to all those verses. I was forced to adopt a new position: nobody had seen His resurrected body, only flesh He put on to make an apearance.

Thanks for your input, Seth!

God bless you,

SeventhDay

 

[theMadJW]

Jesus did appear as a man again- before ascending to heaven as spirit once again, or Jesus showed fake wounds to Thomas.

 

[4Him]

No the difference in that verse is the origin of the body. The current one is from earth, the new one is from Heaven. This one is a temporary tent, the new an eternal dwelling. Here's an interesting idea for you. The Bible says we will be changed. That word is used to change clothes or exchange money. The old body is discarded in exchange for a new one.

No kidding....Of course we get a new body, that's what I've been saying....the corruptible will put on the incorruptible.... but our new body will BE A PHYSICAL ONE.

 

[Sethproton]

No kidding....Of course we get a new body, that's what I've been saying....the corruptible will put on the incorruptible.... but our new body will BE A PHYSICAL ONE.

What verse tells you the new body is physical? I am curious about which verses you base this on?

 

[Sethproton]

Jesus did appear as a man again- before ascending to heaven as spirit once again, or Jesus showed fake wounds to Thomas.

Fake wounds. Yes, that is one take on what happened. My thoughts are that His real body, the new spiritual body can not be seen by humans. But no one could have understood what had happened if Jesus did not appear in a recognizable form, though if you think about it, He did not appear in the same body He died in: nobody ever recognized Him,

 

[4Him]

What verse tells you the new body is physical? I am curious about which verses you base this on?

MANY.

23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

 

[4Him]

Fake wounds. Yes, that is one take on what happened. My thoughts are that His real body, the new spiritual body can not be seen by humans. But no one could have understood what had happened if Jesus did not appear in a recognizable form, though if you think about it, He did not appear in the same body He died in: nobody ever recognized Him,

Yes He did....but it was glorified. Flesh and bone.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Sethproton,

Fake wounds. Yes, that is one take on what happened. My thoughts are that His real body, the new spiritual body can not be seen by humans. But no one could have understood what had happened if Jesus did not appear in a recognizable form, though if you think about it, He did not appear in the same body He died in: nobody ever recognized Him

In answering your statement I am agreeing more or less with 4Him and disagreeing with SeventhDay and theMadJW. I believe that the body that Jesus now possesses is the body which he possessed during his ministry, the same body died, and God raised his body from the dead, and gave it life, and then changed this body into a spiritual body, thus giving him immortality. The wounds in his hand were still evident. The concept that he is now Spirit confuses the subject as we sometimes associate Spirit as to not having a physical aspect, but Jesus is a spiritual body. His physical body was not consumed or replaced. The fact that he could be hidden, and also the fact that his identity was hidden to the two on the way to Emmaus does not contradict the fact that Jesus possesses his resurrected body.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Sethproton]

MANY.

23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

I would like to see a verse that declares in black and white that the new body is physical flesh.
The verse on the "redemption of our bodies," does not address the nature of the new body. Admittedly, the phrase is not as clear as I would like, but still, you must admit it does not state what that redemption produces.
Giving life to our mortal bodies is an expression that speaks to me of new life while we walk the earth. The verse does not speak of death, or after death. It is about the power to live for God here on earth.

 

[Sethproton]

Greetings Sethproton,

In answering your statement I am agreeing more or less with 4Him and disagreeing with SeventhDay and theMadJW. I believe that the body that Jesus now possesses is the body which he possessed during his ministry, the same body died, and God raised his body from the dead, and gave it life, and then changed this body into a spiritual body, thus giving him immortality. The wounds in his hand were still evident. The concept that he is now Spirit confuses the subject as we sometimes associate Spirit as to not having a physical aspect, but Jesus is a spiritual body. His physical body was not consumed or replaced. The fact that he could be hidden, and also the fact that his identity was hidden to the two on the way to Emmaus does not contradict the fact that Jesus possesses his resurrected body.

Kind regards
Trevor

I appreciate your polite post. And you of course are adhering to the majority position of the church. When I first heard these ideas posited i was skeptical. but after I saw all the verse that I could find on the topic of the new body, I was forced to change my position.
Here is one that was important in that change of thought: 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Think about this. John is talking. He saw Jesus after He resurrected. He saw Thomas put his fingers in the holes, yet here John is saying he has never seen Jesus as He is. What did John see? Why wasn't that Jesus as He is?
Add to that thought that John says here he does not know what we will be? Why doesn't He if the resurrected Jesus already appeared to him? Wouldn't John teach that we will be like Jesus he saw post resurrection?

A question to consider. Why would it be needed for Jesus to have a human body? What purpose would there be for that? What would be changed about heaven and us, if we were not going to live in eternal bodies of flesh?

 

[SeventhDay]

Fake wounds. Yes, that is one take on what happened. My thoughts are that His real body, the new spiritual body can not be seen by humans. But no one could have understood what had happened if Jesus did not appear in a recognizable form, though if you think about it, He did not appear in the same body He died in: nobody ever recognized Him,

I would think that Jesus manifested in different appearances is to show us that Jesus is a spiritual body that we can not see yet it indicates that Jesus can appear in any form that he chooses to put on. As you say it would be difficult to understand the risen Jesus in a spiritual body that one can not see so physical appearances was necessary.

God bless you,

SeventhDay

 

[SeventhDay]

MANY.

23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.

Redemption of what bodies considering Jesus has sown a spiritual seed in us?

Mortal bodies given life before the resurrection does not mean our redeemed bodies will be mortal since Jesus has sown a spiritual seed that replaces the mortal body with the spiritual mind and hear.

God bless you,

SeventhDay

 

[4Him]

I would like to see a verse that declares in black and white that the new body is physical flesh.

Jesus said FLESH and bone. Now, if there is some different kind of human that you know of and we don't, feel free to share that info.

The verse on the "redemption of our bodies," does not address the nature of the new body. Admittedly, the phrase is not as clear as I would like, but still, you must admit it does not state what that redemption produces.

YOUR BODY....redemption of your BODY produces a BODY.

Giving life to our mortal bodies is an expression that speaks to me of new life while we walk the earth.

That's not even remotely what the verse says.

 

[4Him]

Redemption of what bodies considering Jesus has sown a spiritual seed in us?

The one you're in. The corruptible will take on the incorruptible.

Mortal bodies given life before the resurrection does not mean our redeemed bodies will be mortal since Jesus has sown a spiritual seed that replaces the mortal body with the spiritual mind and hear.

God bless you,

SeventhDay

I see you don't seem to understand what incorruptible means.

 

[SeventhDay]

Jesus said FLESH and bone. Now, if there is some different kind of human that you know of and we don't, feel free to share that info.



YOUR BODY....redemption of your BODY produces a BODY.



That's not even remotely what the verse says.

Paul is stating that one's new spiritual life in Christ which we have when quickened out of death even affects our mortal bodies. That is not hard to understand is it?

God bless you,

SeventhDay

 

[4Him]

Paul is stating that one's new spiritual life in Christ which we have when quickened out of death even affects our mortal bodies. That is not hard to understand is it?

God bless you,

SeventhDay

I'm quoting Jesus so you go on to talk about Paul....diversion.

 

[SeventhDay]

The one you're in. The corruptible will take on the incorruptible.



I see you don't seem to understand what incorruptible means.

Even if a mortal body does not corrupt and there is no scriptures to state that that is so a spiritual body does not corrupt. Further more we know that one does not inherit heaven in a body of flesh and blood where incorruptible can take place.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

God bless you,

SeventhDay

 

[SeventhDay]

I'm quoting Jesus so you go on to talk about Paul....diversion.

Paul is a follower of Jesus and like Jesus is guided by the Spirit and when we study scriptures it is line upon line, here a little there a little and precept upon precept.

God bless you,

SeventhDay

 

[SeventhDay]

I'm quoting Jesus so you go on to talk about Paul....diversion.

Even so Jesus stating he was not a ghost and that the body he was in was flesh and bone does not mean that Jesus rose in a spiritual body and does not mean he though he appeared in a flesh and bone body that he was not a spiritual body. Jesus could manifest himself in different forms which he did!

God bless you,

SeventhDay

 

[Sethproton]

I would think that Jesus manifested in different appearances is to show us that Jesus is a spiritual body that we can not see yet it indicates that Jesus can appear in any form that he chooses to put on. As you say it would be difficult to understand the risen Jesus in a spiritual body that one can not see so physical appearances was necessary.

God bless you,

SeventhDay

Like you are saying, the Bible syas spiritual, eternal things are unseen. That would have been true of His body after resurrection. Therefore, in order to be seen, He had to take on various bodies. It might be Mark who talks about that Sunday evening and says He appeared in another form. If He had His old body, why didn't He appear in it?