Deuteronomy 6:4-5 - Only one time is necessary

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Fred

Well-known member
It would take only one time for the Bible to teach the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer/worship to demonstrate He is God. Since the Bible teaches this truth in quite a few passages leaves those who deny He is God with no excuse for their unbelief.

- Paul applies YHWH from Joel 3:5 (LXX) unto the Lord Jesus in Romans 10:13

Romans 10:8-14 (8) But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): (9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For with...
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Deuteronomy 6:4-5
(4) Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
(5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (NASB)
a. New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDOTTE): Inside the covenant circle God demands of his people a completely exclusive worship (cf. 6:4) (3:938, jealous, H. G. L. Peels).
b. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): The religion of Israel demanded exclusive worship of Yahweh, and therefore all prayer in Israel was necessarily addressed to the one God. It is obvious that this was of decisive importance (2:790, "The Main Features of OT Prayer," euchomai, Herrmann).
c. Judaism 101: The Shema can also be translated as "The L-rd is our G-d, The L-rd alone," meaning that no other is our G-d, and we should not pray to any other.
http://www.jewfaq.org/g-d.htm
d. In defining Monotheism The Jewish Encyclopedia (1901) affirms that it entails the "worshipers of the one God and of Him alone." (See the first paragraph)
https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/tje/m/monotheism.html
 
Fred said:
It would take only one time for the Bible to teach the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer/worship to demonstrate He is God. Since the Bible teaches this truth in quite a few passages leaves those who deny He is God with no excuse for their unbelief.

- Paul applies YHWH from Joel 3:5 (LXX) unto the Lord Jesus in Romans 10:13

Romans 10:8-14 (8) But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): (9) that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (10) For with...
forums.carm.org

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
(4) Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
(5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. (NASB)
a. New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDOTTE): Inside the covenant circle God demands of his people a completely exclusive worship (cf. 6:4) (3:938, jealous, H. G. L. Peels).
b. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): The religion of Israel demanded exclusive worship of Yahweh, and therefore all prayer in Israel was necessarily addressed to the one God. It is obvious that this was of decisive importance (2:790, "The Main Features of OT Prayer," euchomai, Herrmann).
c. Judaism 101: The Shema can also be translated as "The L-rd is our G-d, The L-rd alone," meaning that no other is our G-d, and we should not pray to any other.
http://www.jewfaq.org/g-d.htm
d. In defining Monotheism The Jewish Encyclopedia (1901) affirms that it entails the "worshipers of the one God and of Him alone." (See the first paragraph)
https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/tje/m/monotheism.html
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In no place in the whole bible is a believer required to confess "Jesus is God" but that he is "the son of God" and "Lord".

Certainly there is a case for saying that those who repudiate his pre-existence aren't entitled to assert Jesus as "the son of God" or "Lord" as such is a manifest contradiction in terms.

For then Jesus would be a mere man: such was one excuse the Jews used to put Jesus to death, for they viewed him as no more than a created man.

Yet to assert "Jesus as God" as the only orthodox theology is to ignore the persistent New Testament distinction between the Father and the Son; and to redefine God in terms of someone other than the Father, which is the real Trinitarian issue: the redefinition of God.
 
cjab said:
In no place in the whole bible is a believer required to confess "Jesus is God" but that he is "the son of God" and "Lord".
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Thus proving when "the Son of God" and "Lord" are used in reference to Jesus means He is God.
 
Fred said:
Thus proving when "the Son of God" and "Lord" are used in reference to Jesus means He is God.
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Rubbish. Jesus has a clearly defined role under God's authority, which entails acting in the Father's place, but with his authority. See 1 Cor 15. The Father remains God.

You're simply not making any biblical point by dogmatizing "Jesus is God." You're showing only that you have a non-biblical agenda.
 
Fred said:
It would take only one time for the Bible to teach the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer/worship to demonstrate He is God.
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I agree !!!

Here is the passage in the Bible you are using to prove the point...

Deuteronomy 6:4-5... Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Q1. Is that passage telling us which divine "person/hypostasis" to love, or is that passage telling us which divine "substance/essence/nature" to love?

Trinitarian Catholic Catechism 252 states...

The Church uses (I) the term "substance" (rendered also at times by "essence" or "nature") to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term "person" or "hypostasis" to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term "relation" to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.

My answer is "person/hypostasis".

There are three basic views promoted on this forum...
A) Jesus is NOT the incarnation of the one LORD (YHWH).
B) Jesus is the incarnation of ONE OF THREE who are called the one LORD (YHWH).
C) Jesus is the incarnation of the one LORD (YHWH).

I believe C.

Q2. What specifically in Deuteronomy 6:4-5 do you think proves B rather than C?

P.S.

Here is a summary of what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Here is a little more detail of what I believe..

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creation) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
cjab said:
In no place in the whole bible is a believer required to confess "Jesus is God" but that he is "the son of God" and "Lord".
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Even you will confess....

9 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

and gave Him the name above all names,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.
 
CrowCross said:
Even you will confess....

9 Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place

and gave Him the name above all names,

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.
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That is what my Bible says as well !!!

Whereas the Bibles of others seem to say "confess that Jesus Christ is one of three that are called Lord".
 
Theological Lexicon of the New Testament: "Let every tongue proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord," that is, God. Such is the object of faith profession and worship: "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." Henceforth, Christians are "those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," that is, who worship his divine majesty and implore his sovereign protection (kyrios, 2:350,
 
Fred said:
Because Jesus is not the Father (John 14:23).
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True, Jesus is not the Father...nor the Holy Spirit....Yey all 3 are God.

Problem is Yahchristian has a limited 3 dimensional thought process.

Yahchristian doesn't believe he has a spirit and is also also physical. Yahchristian is one. But that one conatins a separate spirit as well as a separate physicality.

Kinda funny how Yahchristian can be atleast two separate persons yet be one "Yahchristian"...but God can't.
 
CrowCross said:
Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father
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Ironic that you should deign to contradict me saying that Jesus is Lord (and that the Father is God) by a verse that says exactly that.

I do wonder if we share the same space-time dimension?
 
cjab said:
Ironic that you should deign to contradict me saying that Jesus is Lord (and that the Father is God) by a verse that says exactly that.

I do wonder if we share the same space-time dimension?
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When you say it...and you will...I wonder if it will be because you want to..or under some sort of protest when you realize the truth.
 
CrowCross said:
Kinda funny how Yahchristian can be atleast two separate persons yet be one "Yahchristian"...but God can't.
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I do NOT believe I am two separate persons.

1) Are you saying YOU believe YOU are at least two separate persons?

2) Are YOU saying God is three separate persons?
 
CrowCross said:
Then you don't have a spirit. I didn't know you believed that.
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I am ONE person (“you wholly”) who is spirit and soul and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23... And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Now can you answer my questions...

1) Are you saying YOU believe YOU are at least two separate persons?

2) Are YOU saying God is three separate persons?
 
Fred said:
You ignored the information in the OP.
Try again.
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If you want to metamorphize "call upon" into "pray directly to", it's a free country.

But the word ἐπικαλέω simply means to invoke by name, without any particular form or context attached to it.

One wouldn't exclude the forms of prayer that Jesus personally taught, i.e. "in Jesus name" but the meaning of ἐπικαλέω is far wider than personal prayer and is used in all sorts of different contexts that are by no means confined to the religious.
 
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