Can atheism be known to exist in reality?
- Thread starter Tercon
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Lighthearted Atheist
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Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. It is a human concept with zero physical characteristics. It does not exist in reality. Its just a human idea like love or hope.
Your suggestion that atheism may exist in reality is wrong. Subjective ideas do not exist in reality.
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CrowCross
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I was trying to figure iut what Tercon was saying...but I think he was asking...how do atheist know there isn't a God?
CrowCross
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So, should change your name to softhearted atheist.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
I'm not entirely sure because it doesn't make sense to me, but his main point seems to be, in order to know something you have to believe it first.
CrowCross
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I can see both points standing..for certain items.
I can know Pluto is a planet and believe it is there. Or, I could believe planet X is there but not know it. Or something like that.
Electric Skeptic
Well-known member
The usual gibberish. You have any number of unbeliefs, the same as atheists. If we, in a position of unbelief, can't know the truth and reality then you, in a position of unbelief, can't know the truth and reality either. Your unbelief is exactly the same as ours.
Not to mention, as has been repeatedly pointed out for you to ignore, that your claim that I can't know the truth or reality is falsified by the fact that I know infinitely many truths.
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Electric Skeptic
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The obvious answer - atheism exists as a concept in my head, even if nowhere else.
TeabagSalad
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Wow...how many times do you have to make the same mistake before you learn something?
Once again you are confused about what the term atheism actually means. Atheism isn't unbelief in general, it is unbelief in a single proposition - that being "God Exists".
Why do you keep making this mistake?
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Lighthearted Atheist
Well-known member
A straw man is when I claim you are arguing something you are not. I gave the definition of atheism. I said nothing about your belief.
You are misusing straw man.
Yes. They are all subjective, human concepts that cannot be proven empirically.
OK - they are still not empirical.
Yes.
Unbelief does not exist in reality - its a human concept.
Ah - my mistake. But you are right - atheism does not exist in reality. Is is a human concept,
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Electric Skeptic
Well-known member
Of course it's a concept. If it wasn't, we couldn't be discussing it.
con·cept
(kŏn′sĕpt′)n.
1. A general idea or understanding of something: the concept of inertia; the concept of free will. See Synonyms at idea.
No, there's no requirement that concepts be based on beliefs.
Already answered. Atheism is (at least) a concept, and it exists in my brain.
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Electric Skeptic
Well-known member
Because concepts exist. That's what a concept is - some idea that exists in someone's head. Atheism exists in reality as a concept, just like every other concept, including concepts of things that don't exist as anything but a concept, like unicorns or the planet Trantor or Sauron.
The concept of atheism exists and all that is necessary to show it exists is to understand the definition of the word.
Atheism is a lack of belief in the existence of gods. It cannot be a lie or a delusion, just is it cannot be a truth. Truth, falsehood, delusion etc. are not properties that lacks of belief can have.
A concept is just an idea. Of course unbelief in gods (or unbelief in something else) is a concept.
You seem to think that since belief is a concept then 'unbelief', being the opposite of belief, is the opposite of a concept. That's simply wrong. A concept is just an idea. Collecting stamps is a concept - so is NOT collecting stamps. Bowling is a concept - so is NOT bowling. And so forth.
Again, that's simply false. There is nothing in the definition or common use of the word 'concept' that requires it to be a belief.
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Lighthearted Atheist
Well-known member
You are using empirical terms (true, prove) for a non-empirical ideas (belief, unbelief, atheism). Atheism does not exist in reality or any in objective or empirical way.
Atheism is a human concept - a lack of human belief - that does not exist in reality. Its just in our heads. Like love or hope.
Belief and unbelief are both concepts. Concepts are human ideas that cannot be proven to be objectively right or wrong or true or false.
You misunderstand concept. A concept is just a human idea. It does not exist in reality like Jesus rising from the dead or Moses parting the sea. Concepts are just ideas like our beliefs, our lack of beliefs, what we like, what we dislike, etc .
You are making a logic error.
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Lighthearted Atheist
Well-known member
We can stop there. This assumption is wrong. Belief does not exist in reality. Go try to take a picture of belief. Tell us how much belief weighs. Tell us what color belief is.
These things you think are in 'reality' are concepts in your head. This misunderstanding causes your errors.
We'll stop again. How do you know a concept is true? Can you prove it? No. Because concepts are subjective - there is no true or false - they are human ideas. You can argue a concept - you can disagree. But there is no way to prove something subjective as true.
Its a logic error.
We'll stop again since your assumption is, again, wrong. Love and hope do not exist in reality. You can prove me wrong by linking a photo of love and the measurement of hope.
How would I establish this beyond the definition of the word? There is no empirical evidence for 'unbelief' so I have no idea what you think needs to be shown.
Love is not in nature - its an emotion in the human head. Hope is not in nature - its a feeling in the human head. Belief is not in nature - it is a series of ideas in the human head. Unbelief does not exist in nature - it is a series of ideas in the human head.
You keep claiming subjective things exist in reality. They do not.
Or post your photo of hope out in nature and reality.
I cannot follow this. But if you are claiming that unbelief exists in nature then I'd love to see a photo of unbelief please.
Yes. As do you.
Can you show me atheism and unbelief in reality? Are then in the United States? Europe? Where do I go and see atheism?
I do not know what this means.
Jesus rising from the dead and Moses parting the sea are not concepts. They happened physically in our empirical reality.
Yes.
No.
I have no idea what this means.
The day you post an image of atheism and unbelief out in reality is the day this statement has value.
Atheism, belief, and truth are concepts that do not exist in reality. Let's check Mirriam Webster:
Concept: con·cept | \ ˈkän-ˌsept:
1. something conceived in the mind
2. an abstract or generic idea generalized from particular instances
Atheism, belief, and unbelief all fit that description.
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Whatsisface
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I'm not really sure that's true. The basis for logical truth is logical truth. Minds are needed only to realise that truth.
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Tiburon
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What are we believing first? What do we construct our beliefs from? Are we born with beliefs for everything before we encounter them in reality?
How do we discover new things? Where do our beliefs about them come from?
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Lighthearted Atheist
Well-known member
I agree that morality, logic, and consciousness are not empirical or materialistic. They exist in the human mind - not reality.
I agree. We have both objective knowledge of facts and subjective knowledge of ideas.
Yes - belief is the word we use to describe human understanding of reality. I agree.
Please prove this by showing me 'belief' out in reality - is it in the US? Europe? On Mars? Where is belief in reality?
Yes. The crucifixion, if it did happen, happened in reality.
Correct. You cannot provide evidence for unbelief. It is a concept - it doe snot exist in reality.
The fact that you think belief exists in reality does not add any weight to this insult.
You said belief and unbelief exist in reality. This is literally the core of your argument that you are now denying. You need to pick a lane dude.
I do not think atheism exists in reality - its a human idea.
OK - let me know when you have a photo of belief out in the world.
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Whatsisface
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Bob Carabbio
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SO by your own admission "Most on this forum" are actually nothing more than common Agnostics, like most of humanity in their natural unregenerate state.
I've been saying that all along.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Yes, you're Tercon.
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