Above are the words of someone who will not deal with scriptural exegesis so he makes up analogies
and makes no attempt to prove his claim of scripture twisting
and makes no attempt to prove his claim of scripture twisting
eternomade
Well-known member
I like particular redemption or effectual atonement. Effectual calling is good too. Limited atonement doesn't seem to mean much now. Maybe we could come up with a different acronym like TACOS
CrowCross
Well-known member
Dude, in previous post you said God has to act in a persons life....then they must choose.
My analogy showed just that.
What people like f1tom are saying is that God dresses you up in swimming trunks, flippers, mask, snorkel....and then all you have to do is jump into the water. No pushing allowed.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Define those who are "free willers"!
Please provide your sources that demonstrate this accusation.
Again, who is "Their", and by what standard is their being deemed "Pelagian" deduced.
Please provide your sources that demonstrate this accusation.
Again, to whom does "they" refer?
Yes, John Wesley taught TD and our corruption by sin!
This is true for a minority of those who believe in free will/faith before regeneration. The large majority, especially those of us who are Arminian in our foundations, do not espouse "sinful rebellious man can believe on his own."
Doug
Yep free will is not pelagianism
Reformedguy
Well-known member
And all of God's people said, AMEN!
Reformedguy
Well-known member
And then take credit for the trunks, flippers. mask, and the snorkel. "Those are mine"
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Which falsehood is that? You do take credit for your faith no?
You could start with the idea unbelievers are made believers by being given the spirit
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Does the Spirit only work externally prior to faith??
Do you finally agree unbelievers are not given the spirit?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Does the Spirit only work externally prior to faith?
CrowCross
Well-known member
face palm.....those things represent God drawing you....how he has organized moments in your life to see Jesus.
In your theology God is reaching down from heaven...all you got to do is stretch out your arm and grab him with your hand...SAVED!!!! Wahoo!!!
Or could reality be....God is reaching down from heaven, and has to grab you.
What people like f1tom are saying is that God dresses you up in swimming trunks, flippers, mask, snorkel....and then all you have to do is jump into the water. No pushing allowed.
Except all those things are things anyone can supply for themselves
and so you mispresent my position
As I told you deal with scripture
as if you do not deal with the scriptures you are not dealing with my view
CrowCross
Well-known member
There might be a hint of works.
Anyways, the "free-will" thinker would say.....even though God has provided you the trunks, flippers. mask and snorkel and has you standing on the edge of the water....and you might be ready to jump..
TWEEEEEEEEEEET, TWEEEEEEEEET, get away from the edge of the pool...it's grown-up swim time now.
Deal with scripture
Faith is not a work
Romans 4:4–5 (KJV 1900)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
CrowCross
Well-known member
Ohhhhhh OK....now your saying God is not needed to participate in your salvation?
No, I'm dead on. Then again perhaps I have mispresented your position..as you now seem to be drifting into the position salvation is pretty much you.
Oh, but I have.
Keep in mind anyone can cut and paste scripture out of context. Heck, you claim we do it all the time....and you have the only correct context.
What people like f1tom are saying is that God dresses you up in swimming trunks, flippers, mask, snorkel....and then all you have to do is jump into the water. No pushing allowed