The Confiteor

balshan said:
Really my dishonesty when you constantly misuse Luther. That is you being dishonest. You post does imply non RCs just believe in sinning without consequence which is a big fat false claim and that RCs don't.
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Exactly how have I misrepresented him? Have you read "On Bondage of the Will", his answer to Erasmus in their debate on free will?

Luther believed that human nature has been totally corrupted by original sin, and man, therefore, is deprived of free will. Whatever he does, whether it be it good or evil, is not his own work, but God's. God is the author of good works and evil works, therefore absolving Luther of his responsibility for his own sins.
 
pilgrim said:
All the hyperbole in the world does not excuse "Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong".

"Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect."

That ^ is Scriptural. Or do Protestants think that is hyperbole as well?
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no one is prefect except God

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."
"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."
 
RayneBeau said:
Why do Roman Catholics audibly confess at the beginning of each Mass performance,
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We are to confess our sins, it says so in the bible. Plus, it's about humbling oneself, something that perhaps you as a Christian should also do.
RayneBeau said:
While wrapped up in mindlessly reciting this ritualistic prayer, the penitent Roman Catholics then audibly beseech Virgin Mary, Michael the Archangel, John the Baptist, 2 Apostles - Peter and Paul, and all the numberless saints to pray for them to God
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Better than running around the church like a banshee yelling "I'm saved. I'm saved".

RayneBeau said:
Doesn't this sounds like a cult of misled people who have a zeal for the supernatural realm
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No, not at all. God as He exists spiritually is indeed "supernatural". But seriously friend, one could say that you believe in all kinds of crazy stuff. I mean really, how can you believe that a Virgin became pregnant by a Spirit? That a burning bush actually talked. That a man named Jesus was killed and then rose from the dead and then was lifted up into heaven - on a cloud no less! And you have the gumption to say that we "have abandoned all reason, sound doctrine and common sense"? Where is YOUR sense of reason and common sense, huh?
 
RayneBeau said:
Doesn't this sounds like a cult of misled people who have a zeal for the supernatural realm
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Misfit said:
No, not at all. God as He exists spiritually is indeed "supernatural". But seriously friend, one could say that you believe in all kinds of crazy stuff. I mean really, how can you believe that a Virgin became pregnant by a Spirit? That a burning bush actually talked. That a man named Jesus was killed and then rose from the dead and then was lifted up into heaven - on a cloud no less! And you have the gumption to say that we "have abandoned all reason, sound doctrine and common sense"? Where is YOUR sense of reason and common sense, huh?
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This was the gist of the thread I made titled The Miraculous and Supernatural. The sense that I get is that many nonCC's responding on this site, don't cede to Gods supernatural and literal Presence among us. Or that Jesus divinity exceeds natural law. I've been surprised to note that nonCC's regard the story of Christ and the Scriptures more in the way we would normally call legend than supernatural/divine.
 
RayneBeau said:
While wrapped up in mindlessly reciting this ritualistic prayer, the penitent Roman Catholics then audibly beseech Virgin Mary, Michael the Archangel, John the Baptist, 2 Apostles - Peter and Paul, and all the numberless saints to pray for them to God
Click to expand...
Misfit said:
We are to confess our sins, it says so in the bible. Plus, it's about humbling oneself, something that perhaps you as a Christian should also do.

better than running around the church like a banshee yelling "I'm saved. I'm saved".
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how do you know that? are you claiming you've experienced the rebirth?
how do you know what your reaction would be to God Himself changing your heart?

Misfit said:
No, not at all. God as He exists spiritually is indeed "supernatural". But seriously friend, one could say that you believe in all kinds of crazy stuff. I mean really, how can you believe that a Virgin became pregnant by a Spirit? That a burning bush actually talked. That a man named Jesus was killed and then rose from the dead and then was lifted up into heaven - on a cloud no less!
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are you claiming scripture is all kinds of crazy stuff? what follows that - also claiming to be a Christian?

And you have the gumption to say that we "have abandoned all reason, sound doctrine and common sense"? Where is YOUR sense of reason and common sense, huh?
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sound doctrine is found in and supported by scripture, God's word. It isn't man made.
 
pilgrim said:
I posted the whole paragraph with that line.
You cannot justify "Be a sinner and and let your sins be strong".
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Look at what Paul wrote, it could also be misquoted. A paragraph is not enough to appreciate the full context of written work. I mean to fully understand scripture you need to read all the scriptures.

Where did you post that whole paragraph? I went back through this thread and did not see it. I pushed on the arrow in post in my post 19 and it said that it could not be found. So I have not seen your post of the full paragraph, just you misquoting it out of context.
 
Mysterium Fidei said:
Exactly how have I misrepresented him? Have you read "On Bondage of the Will", his answer to Erasmus in their debate on free will?

Luther believed that human nature has been totally corrupted by original sin, and man, therefore, is deprived of free will. Whatever he does, whether it be it good or evil, is not his own work, but God's. God is the author of good works and evil works, therefore absolving Luther of his responsibility for his own sins.
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You focus on Luther and treat him as evil, yet the RC leaders at the time where evil and greedy. Luther like all men including your blind guides was fallible. Only a fool follows men. I do not follow men. They are not to be trusted. You take that quote out of context and misuse it.

I only follow Jesus. The HS is a real teacher and the RC leaders are false teachers. I am not Lutheran so do not focus on the writings of Luther or Calvin.

If I look at that time period the only one who was truly understood Jesus was Menno Simons, he did not go around killing anyone who did not agree with his views of scripture. That is following Jesus, Jesus unlike the RCC and others never killed one person for disagreeing with Him. He also left the RCC.

Eyes and heart focused on Jesus.
 
Mysterium Fidei said:
Exactly how have I misrepresented him? Have you read "On Bondage of the Will", his answer to Erasmus in their debate on free will?

Luther believed that human nature has been totally corrupted by original sin, and man, therefore, is deprived of free will. Whatever he does, whether it be it good or evil, is not his own work, but God's. God is the author of good works and evil works, therefore absolving Luther of his responsibility for his own sins.
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considering what you've already claimed about Luther, that you believe in the false teachings of the rcc and don't actually know what scripture does say,

why then would I believe what you've posted above?
 
Stella1000 said:
That's quite rambling and ambiguous. In dot points, what are your objections to the Confiteor?
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RayneBeau said:
What? ?

Where did I say anywhere in the OP that I had objections to the Confiteor? :rolleyes:
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Well that's good to know that you haven't got a problem with it. The tenor of the post and the snarky phrasing made it seem like you did.

The confession of sin before presenting at the Eucharist dates to 50AD

In the church you shall acknowledge your transgressions, and you shall not come near for your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . But every Lord’s day gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. – Didache 4, 14 (50 A.D).
 
Stella1000 said:
Well that's good to know that you haven't got a problem with it. The tenor of the post and the snarky phrasing made it seem like you did.

The confession of sin before presenting at the Eucharist dates to 50AD

In the church you shall acknowledge your transgressions, and you shall not come near for your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . But every Lord’s day gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. – Didache 4, 14 (50 A.D).
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I am amused by the insults made by RCs, they are not very imaginative. Then they carrying on about so called insults to them.
 
Stella1000 said:
Well that's good to know that you haven't got a problem with it. The tenor of the post and the snarky phrasing made it seem like you did.
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I didn't think our friend had a problem with it, it was just the normal denigration of anything Catholic that gets posted here. This time it was about the way we worship, the next time it will be something about Catholic schools or perhaps the monastic way of life.
 
1Thess521 said:
no one is prefect except God

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."
"My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One."
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And God is the One who said that. Who is going to tell Him He is wrong?
 
1Thess521 said:
Your self -proclaimed infallible interpreters!
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"Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect."

Clearly there must be a way to be perfect as our heaven Father is perfect, or Jesus wouldn't have commanded it.
 
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