Open Heart
Well-known member
I grew up Christian in a very scholarly Christian family, and I never heard such nonsense.
Why Jews will never accept Jesus
- Thread starter Open Heart
- Start date
The issue here is not God adding laws it is man adding to God laws...
Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
These things are set out in the law.
that is absurd, descendant is not by say so it is by blood. An adopted child can inherit property but they cannot inherit blood"An adopted child is a descendant of the adopting parent for purposes of inheritance from the adopting parent and from the lineal and collateral kindred of the adopting parent and for the purpose of determining the property rights of any person under any instrument,"
We are discussing lineage/bloodline sir not land and wealth...You did not quote the Torah
God makes people Jewish
God makes people Jewish...How did the Jews come into existence?
Then you are saying that these passages are lies...Clearly Israel was carried away and replaced by men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim.
2 Kings 17:6
In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.
and replaced by..
2 Kings 17:24
And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.
The Historical records of the Kings show that they were replaced...
I did not say the blood is holy..but it does make one holy...And thou shalt take of the blood that is upon the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon the garments of his sons with him: and he shall be hallowed, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.
Who said that it had to be as per the commandment? The Jews failed miserably at keeping the commandments. God did his own thing... God made a new covenant...
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
We've not added anything. Just as God applied the laws of inheritance to females in the case of Tzelophehad, Judges apply God's laws to new circumstances, make judgements, and these basically become new laws born from the application of the previous. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
It wasn't part of Sinai. And all future laws were based on the application of the 10 sayings, commandments, to future applications. And the Judges with the authority from God do the same.
I never said converts or adoptees inherit blood. It's an adoption into a national people, the nation of Israel, with legal documentation to prove it. Similar to legal proceedings in all countries for adoption, with all legal rights to the adoptees with new names, etc.
That's where your mistaken. You're stuck on bloodline, I'm not. And BTW, Jesus has zero bloodline following your argument. He's an non-Israelite. Why don't you just admit you know nothing about biology and how infected Jesus is from Adam, by way of Mary's X, which she got partly from her daddy?
So, how much bloodline makes one an Israelite, newbirth? 1%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 100%, from their fathers? What about in Messiah's genealogy? What percentage of Israelite from the father makes him Jewish/Israelite?
Biologically from Jews. Through conversion/adoption otherwise. We know Jesus is not a biological Israelite, and God has no Israelite genes, so you're out of luck, newbirth. Again your argument and makes everyone Jewish.
He started with Adam. The Jews came later via normal human relations between a male and female. Now tell me where Jesus got his physical Israelite genes from? I want some scripture, newbirth.
No, I'm sayin you skipped the ones I gave you from the link.
Go read the additional verses from the link that I highlighted for you. The Samaritans are of mixed-blood from the 10 Northern tribes. It's all there in the Jewish Encyclopedia that any honest person would acknowledge.
Then you admit you messed up. Okay. What does hallowed/holy mean, newbirth? Why is a Priest holy to his God? The commandments make one holy, separated to his God.
Oh, so now you're saying Jesus didn't keep the commandment as written though you throw around Lev 17:11 like its so important? So Jesus' blood is worthless and not in keeping with the requirements for sacrifices at the chosen place.
Yep, with the house of Israel and Judah, not the Church. Same laws written on the hearts and minds.
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Open Heart
Well-known member
And has this happened yet? Obviously not. The law is not yet written on anyone's hearts -- we need to be taught right from wrong.
And has this happened yet? Obviously not. Atheists still exist.
So this "new covenant" that is spoken of here hasn't yet come into existence. That means that the original covenant between Israel and Hashem is still in place.
Open Heart
Well-known member
No it's not hard. But its impossible if you start with a conclusion first that says nothing but the written Torah matters, because then you have to discard all of the really great reasoning anyone gives you to the contrary, including anyone pointing out that it is impossible to observe the written Torah without interpretation.
Why are you discussing that you know nothing about?
strangers and heathens convert to the Jewish religion
People don't need a word for religion, people practice a religion. When one converts to a certain belief they do what those had been believers before them do. But they cannot change their parents to become blood relatives.
But you know what religious practice is. There is mention of people following gods.
Israel is the descendants of the twelve sons of Jacob. Therefore one cannot convert to being an Israelite.
That is your misunderstanding....you cannot become a descendant of Israel by a piece of paper and wishful thinking.
Therefore Ruth did not become a descendant of Israel.
Yes, it has.
You mean to say that you don't know right from wrong?
That is because you are still under the old covenant..
There will always be fools...The passage is referring to those who commit to the new covenant.
Psalm 53:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Only to the blind
Which you are unable to keep. therefore under a curse...
Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Show me one instance where a person was adopted and their lineage/ ancestry changed.
That does not make what you said true...
Open Heart
Well-known member
Oh, I'm absolutely positive what the teaching is. I just don't have the fluency with the Talmud to know where exactly it is found. It would be like someone knowing "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the ten commandments, but not knowing where in the Bible to find that.
Now, exactly who is it that is talking about something they know nothing about????????
No one has an obligation to the 613 commandments except the People of Israel. You don't take them up unless you become an Israelite yourself.
Open Heart
Well-known member
I was taught. You were taught. Everyone has to be taught. It becomes habitual and second nature. But in the beginning, we are taught as children. It is not written on our hearts.
The problem is, the passage explicitly states that everyone will know God. Everyone. That means there will be NO atheists. So obviously the new covenant is not here yet.
Open Heart
Well-known member
I am a convert. That means I have been adopted. Part of my conversion is that Abraham is my father and Sarah is my mother. My new hebrew name reflects that: Chana Rut bat Sara -- Hannah Ruth daughter of Sarah. All converts are bat Sarah or ben Avraham.
Open Heart
Well-known member
It means that what you are saying doesn't refute what I am saying.
Honestly, who are the Jews here? Who would know what Jewish law is? Who would know what conversion entails, and what it means to be a Jew? Not you, sir.
You know what this all reminds me of? Muslims who say that Christians are polytheists, because they don't understand Trinitarianism, so they try to shove it in the polytheism box. Sir, just because you don't understand how someone can become part of the people of Israel, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and it is insulting for you to say that we, here, who are part of the People of Israel, don't know what we are talking about.
You obey the Law by doing what the law says..You can use the example of King Saul....
1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The Lord sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the Lord.
2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.
5 And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley.
6 And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites.
7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.
8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.
9 But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
18 And the Lord sent thee on a journey, and said, Go and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
19 Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of the Lord, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst evil in the sight of the Lord?
20 And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the Lord, and have gone the way which the Lord sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
21 But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the Lord thy God in Gilgal.
The same way as all sacrifice is prepared as commanded in the Torah. You are talking foolishness and calling God a liar... God said he commanded, you are saying he didn't.
Converted from what to what? and adopted by whom?
Abraham and Sarah were not Jews. They are dead according to the flesh.
A name does not change your lineage, you just converted from one belief to another...
what is your point here? The scripture is clear there is a distinction between mouth converts and practicing converts...I was referring to practicing converts. They must follow the same law as Israelites.
The Torah tells you exactly what it means. If you can't see it there is no need to pretend... No work means no work.
The command is thou shalt not commit murder...there is a difference
you are, strangers and heathens convert to the Jewish religion
An Israelite is a descendant of Jacob's twelve sons. One does not become a descendant of Israel willy nilly.
Harel13
Active member
Wait...are you telling Jews who can and can't be Jewish? That's rich.
You are not making sense...Taught by whom? Where did it originate? You seem to be saying that people who never heard about jews or jesus don't know right from wrong.
And everyone does...you think that it means that everyone will obey God.
There will always be fools
Your misunderstanding does not mean it is not here. Anyway you seem to be saying that you don't know God
I am telling pseudo-Jews who the Israelites are.