Where in Scripture does it say Jesus is angry with Christians

Whatever definition one wishes to use of Sola Scriptura, it clearly does not work. The evidence that it doesn’t work is all the denominations present in the world.
It does work. The fact there are numerous denoms doesn't mean ss to blame. Everyone will stand before God one day. Which is why i don't lose any sleep over it. I believe it. I hold to it. Denying Gods authoritative word leads to chaos. Just like the theology of the rcc.

If multiple denoms is a black eye for ss then what about rouge catholics? Does that give your pope a black eye? Hes the leader. Hes allegedly infallible yet many catholics reject catholic teaching.
 
Our friends are alive upon this earth. The Bible tells us to pray FOR each other. Not TO each other. Nowhere does the Bible tell us to pray to the dead in the Lord.

Why isn't Jesus good enough for Catholics to pray to? Why do they run to His mother all the time?
As you are aware, Catholics aren't sola scripturists and aren't convinced that 1500 years of belief in the communion of saints was legitimately voided at the Reformation.
 
As you are aware, Catholics aren't sola scripturists and aren't convinced that 1500 years of belief in the communion of saints was legitimately voided at the Reformation.
we are not the idiots nor are we as stupid as rc's would like to believe we are. Just because a long held belief has been around for 1500 years does not mean that it is right or correct. As several rc's have pointed out, rc doctrines and dogmas "develop" over time. I would say that it is more than a certainty that these developments have gone deeper down the cesspool as the 1500 years have passed by.
 
As you are aware, Catholics aren't sola scripturists and aren't convinced that 1500 years of belief in the communion of saints was legitimately voided at the Reformation.
No surprise as RCs prefer to add to scriptures and never followed the scriptures. They prefer things like the fake POJs to give them doctrines and the natural world and philosophy. The apostles did not follow the false RC practices of praying to the dead.
 
we are not the idiots nor are we as stupid as rc's would like to believe we are. Just because a long held belief has been around for 1500 years does not mean that it is right or correct. As several rc's have pointed out, rc doctrines and dogmas "develop" over time. I would say that it is more than a certainty that these developments have gone deeper down the cesspool as the 1500 years have passed by.
Where did I call you an idiot?
 
leonard03782 said:
we are not the idiots nor are we as stupid as rc's would like to believe we are. Just because a long held belief has been around for 1500 years does not mean that it is right or correct. As several rc's have pointed out, rc doctrines and dogmas "develop" over time. I would say that it is more than a certainty that these developments have gone deeper down the cesspool as the 1500 years have passed by.
Where did I call you an idiot?
where does leonard say that you did?
 
You mean 1400 tops and probably much less. No one bought into this in the first century which is why no catholic can give us any name of someone that prayed TO anyone other than God.
Hebrews 12 affirms a communal living bond between the living and those saints gone before us...

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Many of the early Fathers speak passionately about the revelation of this communion and the real relationship. ie. Cyprian of Carthage...

“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy” (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).

Or Cyril of Jerusalem...

“Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition . . . ” (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).

In the first 1500 years this belief has never been declared heretical or dispensed with by any Christian authority. From my perspective there's no persuasive argument that shows it to be a false tradition.
 
Hebrews 12 affirms a communal living bond between the living and those saints gone before us...

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Many of the early Fathers speak passionately about the revelation of this communion and the real relationship. ie. Cyprian of Carthage...

“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy” (Letters 56[60]:5 [A.D. 253]).

Or Cyril of Jerusalem...

“Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition . . . ” (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350]).

In the first 1500 years this belief has never been declared heretical or dispensed with by any Christian authority. From my perspective there's no persuasive argument that shows it to be a false tradition.
neither quoted scripture in support of it. just more words of men. catholics dig deep into words of men to support what they believe, instead of into scripture.

are catholics afraid of God's word?
 
First of all, Where in Hebrews 12, does it say to worship those in heaven? Or communicate with them. Paul is not speaking of such. It is simply not there. At the very beginning of Hebrews 12

2 fixing our eyes on Jesus,

Nothing about fixing our eyes on Jesus plus mary, saints, dead people or angels. Hebrews is speaking of the fact that we can come to God and speak directly to God and Jesus... There is absolutely nothing in the whole chapter about conversing with the dead.

Hebrews 12:23
You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant,

verse 26
At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.

Did mary's voice shake the earth? Are the dead saints more powerful than God? If what the early popes spoke of were truth, then Jesus would not have said the following

Luke 16:27-29
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Notice that the rich man's request for lazarus to go down to earth to talk to his brothers was denied. And neither was the rich man himself able to warn his brothers. Which is why he requested for lazarus to go. So the ability to converse with those in heaven is baloney. King saul was chosen as king, as as king he had say over the people; but that did not make his words, deeds and actions approved by God. God killed him. Saul died specifically for communicating with the dead samuel.

1 Chronicles 10:14
and he failed to inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death

Never mind the witch; If he hadn't been so bent on speaking with samuel, he would never had contact with the witch at endor to begin with. His goal and desire whole heartedly was to talk to samuel who had long been dead. He didn't inquire of the Lord to do for him.

All throughout Scripture it speaks of seeking God, and worshiping Him only. Why isn't praying to God only; ever enough for Rc's? Rc's aren't satisfied with simply fellowshipping with God alone. And relying on Him alone.
 
First of all, Where in Hebrews 12, does it say to worship those in heaven? Or communicate with them. Paul is not speaking of such. It is simply not there. At the very beginning of Hebrews 12

2 fixing our eyes on Jesus,

Nothing about fixing our eyes on Jesus plus mary, saints, dead people or angels. Hebrews is speaking of the fact that we can come to God and speak directly to God and Jesus... There is absolutely nothing in the whole chapter about conversing with the dead.

Hebrews 12:23
You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant,

verse 26
At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.

Did mary's voice shake the earth? Are the dead saints more powerful than God? If what the early popes spoke of were truth, then Jesus would not have said the following

Luke 16:27-29
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Notice that the rich man's request for lazarus to go down to earth to talk to his brothers was denied. And neither was the rich man himself able to warn his brothers. Which is why he requested for lazarus to go. So the ability to converse with those in heaven is baloney. King saul was chosen as king, as as king he had say over the people; but that did not make his words, deeds and actions approved by God. God killed him. Saul died specifically for communicating with the dead samuel.

1 Chronicles 10:14
and he failed to inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death

Never mind the witch; If he hadn't been so bent on speaking with samuel, he would never had contact with the witch at endor to begin with. His goal and desire whole heartedly was to talk to samuel who had long been dead. He didn't inquire of the Lord to do for him.

All throughout Scripture it speaks of seeking God, and worshiping Him only. Why isn't praying to God only; ever enough for Rc's? Rc's aren't satisfied with simply fellowshipping with God alone. And relying on Him alone.
catholic eyes are on the rcc and whatever else it tells them to fix their eyes on - what it teaches, popes, ecfs, ccc, mary and the made up visions of her etc. - all things contrary to God and His word.
 
There are many things we can ask of Mary. Just as there are many things we can ask of our friends. What makes you think we think Jesus isn’t good enough for us to pray to?
There is nothing we can ask of Mary. Nothing that Jesus cannot do, when we pray to HIM: "Whatever you asked ME in MY Name, that I will do." (John 14)

Did He say "whatever you ask my mother in my name, that I will do"?
 
The title of this thread is proof that my assertion is accurate.
Not so fast. Matt Slick says the following:


Roman Catholicism, Mary, and Idolatry​

by Matt Slick | Jul 30, 2010 | Roman Catholicism, World Religions
Roman Catholics have an extremely high view of Mary and have attributed some astounding characteristics and abilities to her, such as her interceding for us, atoning for us, and delivering our souls from damnation (documented below). Protestants consider this elevation to be not only extreme but also idolatrous since they attribute to Mary what should only be said of God. Roman Catholicism responds by saying it venerates Mary and gets its doctrines on her from Sacred Tradition, which is an “inanimate thing passed from hand to hand,”1. Alright, so which is it, the sin of idolatry or the blessing of veneration?
The Roman Catholic church teaches there is a difference between idolatry and veneration. It says,
idolatry

“Idolatry etymologically denotes Divine worship given to an image, but its signification has been extended to all Divine worship given to anyone or anything but the true God . . . An essential difference exists between idolatry and the veneration of images practiced [sic] in the Catholic Church, viz., that while the idolater credits the image he reverences with Divinity or Divine powers, the Catholic knows “that in images there is no divinity or virtue on account of which they are to be worshipped, that no petitions can be addressed to them, and that no trust is to be placed in them.”2
The Roman Catholic Church has defined idolatry far too narrowly in its favor. Let’s consider two things.

Divine worship​

First, notice that it says “divine worship” should be given only to God. This works out to mean that other forms of worship to Mary are okay as long as it isn’t “divine worship.” But what is “divine worship?” After searching through the Vatican Website3, the Catholic Encyclopedia4, the entire Council of Trent5, Vatican II6 and the Catechism of the Catholic Church,7, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma,8 and the Catholic Dictionary9 the best I could find was, “Now the divine worship is directed to the glorification of God.”10 That is a nice and brief comment, but it isn’t descriptive enough. Why is it that in all these sources Divine Worship is not defined? Perhaps it is because offering a strict definition might make them vulnerable to criticism concerning their worship of Mary.
Catholicism says that divine worship is for God only, yet it also says it is okay to bow down before a statue of Mary, pray to Mary, believe that Mary delivers us from death, believe Mary atoned for us, etc., as long as you don’t give her “divine worship.” In other words, you can do almost anything worship-wise to Mary as you would to God – just don’t call it “divine worship.”

Exodus 20:5 and “worship”​

The Hebrew word for “worship” in Exodus 20:5 (the Ten Commandments) is “shachah” שָׁחָה. Take a look at what the Strong’s Enhanced Lexicon says about the word.
“172 occurrences; AV translates as “worship” 99 times, “bow” 31 times, “bow down” 18 times, “obeisance” nine times, “reverence” five times, “fall down” three times, “themselves” twice, “stoop” once, “crouch” once, and translated miscellaneously three times. 1 to bow down. 1a (Qal) to bow down. 1b (Hiphil) to depress (fig). 1c (Hithpael). 1c1 to bow down, prostrate oneself. 1c1a before superior in homage. 1c1b before God in worship. 1c1c before false gods. 1c1d before angel.”11
Bowing down is part of the act of worship – as you can see above. Clearly, Roman Catholics who bow down before statues of Mary (and others) are risking breaking the commandment not to worship other gods and not to bow down before idols. The Catholic Church responds by saying that as long as it isn’t divine worship given to Mary, it is okay. But this is nothing more than a word game. They do the same thing to Mary that they would to God and excuse it by saying that it isn’t divine worship. The funny thing is that God doesn’t make the same distinction as the Catholics do. God says don’t do it. Don’t bow down before images (Lev. 26:1).

Idolatry​

Second, the Roman Catholic definition of idolatry used above says “the idolater credits the image he reverences with Divinity or Divine powers.” Again after searching all the sources listed above, divine powers is not defined. The best I found was “divine power preserved Christ’s body from corruption.” (CCC 627) and “Divine power is inexhaustible” (Catholic Encyclopedia, Omnipotence). Roman Catholicism does not attribute divinity to Mary (at least, not yet), but it does attribute divine powers to her: atonement of sin12; divine access to God13, delivering our souls from death14; her intercession brings us salvation15, etc.
Such magnificent attributes of Mary are found nowhere in Scripture. Let me say this again, none of these things are found in God’s inspired word. They are, however, said to be found in the Roman Catholic Church’s Sacred Tradition. I cannot help considering what God said through the Apostle Paul about not exceeding what is written in the word of God.
“Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that in us you might learn not to exceed what is written, in order that no one of you might become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.” (1 Cor. 4:6).16
So, the Roman Catholic Church is commanded by Scripture to not exceed what is written in God’s word. Has it done that? Has it exceeded the limits of Scripture? Yes, it has.
In the Bible, NASB, the word idol (and its cognates idols and idolatry) occurs 175 times in 162 verses. I read every one of the 175 verses, and not once did I find a reference to the idolators actually considering the idols in their hands and/or to which they bowed as actually being alive because that is what it would mean to claim that they were divine. Remember, Catholicism says, “the idolater credits the image he reverences with Divinity or Divine powers.”17. But this is wrong. You see, the Catholic Church is stacking the definitional deck in its favor so as to separate itself from the biblical teaching of idolatry and maintain its practice of bowing down before various statues and praying to saints.
But saying the Roman Catholic Church is practicing idolatry doesn’t prove anything. So, let’s turn to God’s word and take a look at the examples of idolatry and then see if the Roman Catholic Church practices the same thing concerning Mary.

See the chart at the link.
 
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First of all, Where in Hebrews 12, does it say to worship those in heaven? Or communicate with them. Paul is not speaking of such. It is simply not there. At the very beginning of Hebrews 12

2 fixing our eyes on Jesus,

Nothing about fixing our eyes on Jesus plus mary, saints, dead people or angels. Hebrews is speaking of the fact that we can come to God and speak directly to God and Jesus... There is absolutely nothing in the whole chapter about conversing with the dead.

Hebrews 12:23
You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant,

verse 26
At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.

Did mary's voice shake the earth? Are the dead saints more powerful than God? If what the early popes spoke of were truth, then Jesus would not have said the following

Luke 16:27-29
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Notice that the rich man's request for lazarus to go down to earth to talk to his brothers was denied. And neither was the rich man himself able to warn his brothers. Which is why he requested for lazarus to go. So the ability to converse with those in heaven is baloney. King saul was chosen as king, as as king he had say over the people; but that did not make his words, deeds and actions approved by God. God killed him. Saul died specifically for communicating with the dead samuel.

1 Chronicles 10:14
and he failed to inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death

Never mind the witch; If he hadn't been so bent on speaking with samuel, he would never had contact with the witch at endor to begin with. His goal and desire whole heartedly was to talk to samuel who had long been dead. He didn't inquire of the Lord to do for him.

All throughout Scripture it speaks of seeking God, and worshiping Him only. Why isn't praying to God only; ever enough for Rc's? Rc's aren't satisfied with simply fellowshipping with God alone. And relying on Him alone.
The problem that I have is that you have your absolutist sola scriptura interpretation however where is that echoed throughout the history of the Church before the Reformation? What you're asking us to believe is that the bishops, theologians, holy men and women of the historical Church were all just wrong. That they weren't as learned or maybe as holy as todays sola scriptura interpreters. You're asking us to reject the recognised Church that has stood strong throughout Christian history. That to me seems like those wacky conspiracy theorists who are convinced they are absolutely right in rejecting universal disciplines like science and physics because of their own personal conviction of their expertise.

You have to understand that a Catholic is a Catholic because they believe in the One, holy, catholic, apostolic Church that is a continuum and always will be.
 
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