Roman Catholic Thoughts On Spiritual Delusion . . . .

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dingoling. said:
Paul says, "For are we what he made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life."

We are all different and God has a plan for each one of us. For Abraham it was offering his son, but for you or me it is something else.
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More eisigesis. Let's look at Ephesians 1-10 to compare what your Rcc taught you and what Scripture tells us:

Ephesians 2: 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ding, you continue to dig your hole deeper and deeper, making unbiblical claims that are not even close to what Scripture teaches us. Your comment above is another example. Let alone your early claim that " a person is saved by faith alone and not by works" is not true. How much more disobedient can you be? Continuing to deny God His immutable role in our salvation? I am continuing to pray for you ding, that the Holy Spirit would show you the truth and lead you back to Him and away from your salvation by works, Mary worship religion.
 
Bonnie said:
Those who are saved WANT to do good works. Not because they MUST, in order to be saved, but because they ARE saved.

Catholics have a very hard time understanding that. Sad.
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Our confusion comes from the fact that many who claim to be saved are just living secular lives secure in their assumed salvation. There seems to be very little focus in the nonCC world on that. The condemnation is pretty exclusively towards Catholics. If nonCCs focused on that anomaly among their brethren we would have a much clearer understanding of your position.
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
More eisigesis. Let's look at Ephesians 1-10 to compare what your Rcc taught you and what Scripture tells us:

Ephesians 2: 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ding, you continue to dig your hole deeper and deeper, making unbiblical claims that are not even close to what Scripture teaches us. Your comment above is another example. Let alone your early claim that " a person is saved by faith alone and not by works" is not true. How much more disobedient can you be? Continuing to deny God His immutable role in our salvation? I am continuing to pray for you ding, that the Holy Spirit would show you the truth and lead you back to Him and away from your salvation by works, Mary worship religion.
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Thanks for your concern, but the truth is we are not saved by faith alone. God has never said that we can attain salvation by just our faith alone. Also the works are not our works but God's work in us.
 
dingoling. said:
Thanks for your concern, but the truth is we are not saved by faith alone. God has never said that we can attain salvation by just our faith alone.
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Your claim is false and your understanding of Scripture is incomplete. These verses, that I quoted from Ephesians, says we are saved by Grace. Again, these verses say we are saved by Grace. GRACE. There is nothing in these verses that say we are saved only by faith or "faith alone". This is a lie spread by those who can't conceive that God's Grace is sufficient. Our act of faith is stepping out and believing God's promise, as Abraham did; that if we repent, truly turn from our sin, accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior and are baptized we are redeemed and that is God's promise. Even while we were yet sinners God loved us enough to send His Son to die for us. God's Grace is what saves us. Not our faith alone, as you falsely claim, or any works added to what can't be added to. There is nothing we can do to save ourselves. If that were possible we could have just followed the law and thereby negating what Jesus Christ, my Lord, God and Savior did on the cross for ALL sinners.

dingoling. said:
Also the works are not our works but God's work in us.
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And what exactly are those works? And what if you don't exhibit these works you speak of, what then?
 
Stella1000 said:
Our confusion comes from the fact that many who claim to be saved are just living secular lives secure in their assumed salvation. There seems to be very little focus in the nonCC world on that. The condemnation is pretty exclusively towards Catholics. If nonCCs focused on that anomaly among their brethren we would have a much clearer understanding of your position.
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We have made our position crystal clear. Saved by Grace. No works necessary. Jesus first. No other mediator needed. His perfect sacrifice, His death and resurrection is all that is needed to redeem manking. Nothing else. Fin. How is that confusing?
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
We have made our position crystal clear. Saved by Grace. No works necessary. Jesus first. No other mediator needed. His perfect sacrifice, His death and resurrection is all that is needed to redeem manking. Nothing else. Fin. How is that confusing?
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"No works necessary". "Works show salvation". Do works matter or not?
 
Stella1000 said:
Our confusion comes from the fact that many who claim to be saved are just living secular lives secure in their assumed salvation. There seems to be very little focus in the nonCC world on that. The condemnation is pretty exclusively towards Catholics. If nonCCs focused on that anomaly among their brethren we would have a much clearer understanding of your position.
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says who? catholics? those who deny Him and His word condemn themselves.
 
Stella1000 said:
"No works necessary".
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If you're speaking of works for salvation, none!

Stella1000 said:
"Works show salvation".
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To show our salvation to whom? To the lost sinners as a testimony to God's Grace? Only to glorify God in that case and nothing for us to boast of. The two greatest commandments are these: Love God and love others. If we love others and love God we are following His commands.

Stella1000 said:
Do works matter or not?
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We are not saved by works so if you mean works towards salvation then no. Again.
 
mica said:
what else does He say that we need? the grace is of Him. actually even our faith is of Him.

why can't you tell us what else He requires of us?
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He desires that we love him with all our hearts and minds and soul and strength and might. And we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.

If we understand the tremendous sacrifice that God made for us to attain to salvation how could we not love him with all our hearts.....
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
If you're speaking of works for salvation, none!



To show our salvation to whom? To the lost sinners as a testimony to God's Grace? Only to glorify God in that case and nothing for us to boast of. The two greatest commandments are these: Love God and love others. If we love others and love God we are following His commands.



We are not saved by works so if you mean works towards salvation then no. Again.
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Works are a part of salvation - God's work. Jesus came to save us from our sins. This is more than just forgiveness of sins, but it is also about God putting his laws in our minds and writing them on our hearts. God is working in us causing us to walk in his statues....This is very much a part of the NC.
 
Stella1000 said:
Our confusion comes from the fact that many who claim to be saved are just living secular lives secure in their assumed salvation. There seems to be very little focus in the nonCC world on that.
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Uh, how would you know? Have you known every single non-RC in the world? But then the same can be said for those in the RCC--they think belonging to your church, going to Mass all the time, praying the Rosary, partaking of Holy Communion, praying to the saints, etc. are all that are necessary to be saved. In other words, they go through all the right "motions" prescribed by their church.
Stella1000 said:
The condemnation is pretty exclusively towards Catholics. If nonCCs focused on that anomaly among their brethren we would have a much clearer understanding of your position.
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No, it can happen anywhere, but since this is the Catholic forum, we discuss it here, as relates to those in Catholicism.
 
dingoling. said:
Works are a part of salvation - God's work.
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Yes, they are the work OF God in the born-again believers' lives. They do not save, but are the outcome of salvation.
dingoling. said:
Jesus came to save us from our sins. This is more than just forgiveness of sins, but it is also about God putting his laws in our minds and writing them on our hearts.
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This is true.
dingoling. said:
God is working in us causing us to walk in his statues....This is very much a part of the NC.
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Are they? Even the man-made statutes/practices? Like praying the Rosary? Praying to saints dead in the Lord for help, succor, and salvation? Indulgences?
 
dingoling. said:
He desires that we love him with all our hearts and minds and soul and strength and might. And we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.

If we understand the tremendous sacrifice that God made for us to attain to salvation how could we not love him with all our hearts.....
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Absolutely! So, why, then, are there so many prayers to Mary, begging her for help, salvation, refuge, etc. How is that loving God with all their hearts, when, instead of praying to God in Christ Jesus our Lord, they go to Mary all the time, pleading to her for mercy and help? Calling her the "only hope for salvation"?
 
Bonnie said:
Absolutely! So, why, then, are there so many prayers to Mary, begging her for help, salvation, refuge, etc. How is that loving God with all their hearts, when, instead of praying to God in Christ Jesus our Lord, they go to Mary all the time, pleading to her for mercy and help? Calling her the "only hope for salvation"?
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Jesus gave authority to Peter and his successors. If we want to know what to believe concerning the Christian faith then we listen to one who has the authority. We don't listen to Luther or Calvin or Zwingly....Why should we listen to them or anyone else? None of these have been given authority to settle issues concerning the Christian faith.
 
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