Stella1000
Well-known member
Is this the answer. Heb 13 17 is talking about angels, not human leaders?
Roman Catholic Thoughts On Spiritual Delusion . . . .
- Thread starter RayneBeau
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why don't catholics read in context? because the rcc doesn't teach you that. nor does it read verses in context, lest a catholic hear (see) the truth.
maybe Luther read something in context.
Hebrews 1:7
7 And of the angels he saith,
Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
.
14 Are they not all ministering spirits,
sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
and you have been told the new birth comes from
being either dunked or sprinkled with some "Holy Water"
Baptism
7 And of the angels he saith,
Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
.
14 Are they not all ministering spirits,
sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
John 3:
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not,
how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Acts 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come,
they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind,
and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire,
and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof,
but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:
so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not,
how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Acts 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come,
they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind,
and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire,
and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,
and you have been told the new birth comes from
being either dunked or sprinkled with some "Holy Water"
Baptism
Stella1000
Well-known member
I guess you are going to continue to be weirdly cryptic. Who knows why. Perhaps you aren't convinced enough of your theory to bring it into the light? Whatever the reason I deduce you can not answer my question. "Is this the answer. Heb 13 17 is talking about angels, not human leaders?"
dingoling.
Well-known member
They are not true. They are false doctrines; the teachings of men.
1Thess521
Well-known member
and yet: you can't tell us what are the works that justify
dingoling.
Well-known member
Well we see in Matthew Jesus said, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
Also in Luke 18 Jesus told us that the tax collector went away, after confessing his sins, justified.
Paul says in Romans 2 that the doers of the law will be justified.
Paul also said in Galatians 5 is that the only thing that counts is faith working through love.
1Thess521
Well-known member
what are the works that justify??
Give us an example that God would want use to do:
it cannot be a work of the Law : it can not be a work done in righteousness,
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
dingoling.
Well-known member
James says, "Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?"
1Thess521
Well-known member
i asked for you to "Give us an example that God would want use to do:"
i don't have a son
I will NOT be sacrificing any Children'
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
So if I understand you, in your first two points, then God isn't 1) able to save us by His Grace and 2) Jesus' sacrifice on the cross wasn't sufficient.
Concerning the last point 3) Jesus returns every communion to be the cracker and wine, and you as a Catholic actually eat His flesh and drink His blood. That is not only disgusting but cannabilism. You might as well be worshipping a golden calf. Jesus has told us He will not return until the end of days and the Father alone knows when that is. Not every Sunday when Catholics have communion. Communion is to be done in remembrance of His sacrifice, not to re-sacrifice Him every time communion is done.
1Thess521
Well-known member
Why not just except the view of the early Church and agree James 2:21 is talking about vindication/proved?
Cyril of Alexandria, a native Greek speaker, on the issue of the meaning of the term edikaiōthē (translated “justified” in Ancient Christian Commentary on the Scripture, New Testament VI), clearly explains that he believes that it refers to vindication, and not literal justification:
Clement, who writes at a time contemporaneous enough with James’ to have a thorough understanding of edikaiōthē and the doctrine of the Apostles that is surrounding it. Citing James 2:23, and likely having the whole section in mind when exegeting Hebrews 11, he writes that Abraham proved his faithfulness in the performance faithful acts:
Not only does Clement endorse the view that Abraham was vindicated by his sacrifice of Isaac, as he was found faithful in our sight because of it, he linguistically uses the term “justified” to mean “vindicated” elsewhere in the letter.
Cyprian of Carthage writes:
“men are tried by God for this purpose, that they may be proved.”
A later Latin writer, Hilary of Poitiers,
Abraham had proved, by the sacrifice of his son,
"the Greek language had no other word that meant vindication in the present tense"
James 2:21: Works vindicate (edikaiōthē) our faith before all
What does James mean that Abraham was justified by works? Can we be justified multiple times, once by faith and other times by works? Is James contradicting Paul? We answer these questions in the f…
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
It was Abraham's faith that justified him, not the act of sacrifice. Abraham rested on God's promise that he would father a nation uncountable and that promise, and because he believed in faith, he knew God would not have him sacrifice Isaac. That is the faith that justified Abraham, not the act he stepped out in faith to do. Good grief. This is a prime example of how you Catholics don't test by Scripture what your ecclesiastical authority tells you.
Gen.22:7
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said,
My father: and he said, Here am I, my son.
And he said, Behold the fire and the wood:
but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said,
My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:
so they went both of them together.
And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said,
My father: and he said, Here am I, my son.
And he said, Behold the fire and the wood:
but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said,
My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:
so they went both of them together.
and that he did
13: And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked,
and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns:
and Abraham went and took the ram,
and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns:
and Abraham went and took the ram,
and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
dingoling.
Well-known member
Paul says, "For are we what he made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life."
We are all different and God has a plan for each one of us. For Abraham it was offering his son, but for you or me it is something else.
thx for showing that you do not understand His word.
you don't know His word from that made up by men.
1Thess521
Well-known member
What is it for you or I that God wants us to add to our faith to be justified?
Have you done it ?
If it cannot be a work of the Law : it can not be a work done in righteousness,
What is left?
yes, it would seem that way to those who don't know Him or His word.
1Thess521
Well-known member
yep, I was saved in Christ, so now I do good works
who IS Paul speaking to? believers in Christ, not followers of men.
catholics reject God's plan. they cling to their rcc instead of Christ. God provided us with a Lamb but catholics reject His Lamb for a man made substitute - the rcc and all of its 'man made goodies', that catholics love so much more than Him.
they submit to the rcc/pope/Mary, not to Christ.
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