Roman Catholic Thoughts On Spiritual Delusion . . . .

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1Thess521 said:
sure He did
as soon as the the young man said he has kept all the Commandants
Jesus shows him that he loves his riches more than God or his neighbors

nope: Jesus keep the commandments for me
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No. That is your personal interpretation.

John 14:21
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Jesus' response to the young man? He LOVED him.
 
pilgrim said:
No. That is your personal interpretation.
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please provide us with the official interpretation:
Augustine? Jerome? Haydock ? USCCB?
pilgrim said:
John 14:21
"He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Jesus' response to the young man? He LOVED him.
Click to expand...

I love my children: that is why I correct them:
 
1Thess521 said:
please provide us with the official interpretation:
Augustine? Jerome? Haydock ? USCCB?


I love my children: that is why I correct them:
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The interpretation is John 14:21. The man kept the commandments. What does John 14:21 say that He will do if we keep them? Exactly what He did : love him and manifest Himself to him.
 
pilgrim said:
The interpretation is John 14:21. The man kept the commandments. What does John 14:21 say that He will do if we keep them? Exactly what He did : love him and manifest Himself to him.
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Haydock and Jerome state the young man was nor correct about keeping the commandments
Ver. 19. S. Jerom thinks his answer was not conformable to truth

Jesus loves us while we were still sinners (law breakers)

No one has kept the Commandment in thought AND deed
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,...
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
 
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1Thess521 said:
He doesn't
nor did He tell us what He said yesterday
and yet God's words (whether spoken or written) are more authoritative than anything spoken or written from any Church

Why can't you embrace that as true ?
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Why would we need to embrace it as true if we don't know with certainty what God's word is and what it is not.
 
Bonnie said:
Go to the Lutheran board and ask there. I think it would be off topic to discuss it here.

Now, what did Jesus actually tell the woman SAVED her? What little big word did He say?
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I answered that already. He said her faith saved her, he didn't say her faith alone saved her. Her faith wasn't alone. Faith without works is dead.
 
dingoling. said:
Well first we have to know with certainty what God's word is and what it is not.
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NO, we do not

I do not need to know what God said yesterday to proclaim God's spoken words are the highest authority
(do you need to know that?)

I do not need to know if 3 Corinthians is sitting in a cave somewhere to proclaim God's written words are the highest authority.

God's words (whether spoken or written) are more authoritative than anything spoken or written from any Church
Why can't you embrace that as true ?
 
dingoling. said:
I answered that already. He said her faith saved her, he didn't say her faith alone saved her. Her faith wasn't alone. Faith without works is dead.
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Actually, all you said was that her faith was not alone, not that her faith saved her. We know her faith produced the fruit of her loving acts towards Jesus, BUT--did He say those loving works helped to save her?

No, He simply said FAITH. Nothing else.
 
dingoling. said:
Why would we need to embrace it as true if we don't know with certainty what God's word is and what it is not.
Click to expand...


I do not need to know what God said yesterday to proclaim God's spoken words are the highest authority
(do you need to know that?)

I do not need to know if 3 Corinthians is sitting in a cave somewhere to proclaim God's written words are the highest authority.

God's words (whether spoken or written) are more authoritative than anything spoken or written from any Church
Why can't you embrace that as true ?

The authority of Scripture is over the authority of the Church because of what Scripture is (its characteristics and attributes)
not because of what is Scripture (a list)

If you actually accepted and embraced the characteristics and attributes of Scripture then it would make sense to you.

1st: The written words from God and the spoken words from God carry the same authority.
Do you accept that as true?

2nd: The spoken words from God (whether from His Throne or the Sermon on the Mount) are more authoritative than the Church.
Do you accept that as true?
 
organgrinder said:
It is easy. You missed it...per usual. Adding to the text what wasn't in the text.
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The nCCs are the ones trying to tell us that we are saved by faith alone. There is no text in scripture, anywhere, that says we are saved by faith alone. So the nCCs are the ones adding to scripture what isn't there.
 
dingoling. said:
The nCCs are the ones trying to tell us that we are saved by faith alone.
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and Popes
and Catholic apologeticists
and the Vatican website
and ECFs
etc

"Benedict affirmed that Luther had correctly translated Paul's words as 'justified by faith alone' -- the well known sola fide."

Pope Benedict XVI: 'Luther Was Right'​

"Luther would have been amazed at the efforts of the Vatican today to put the Bible back into the heart of the Roman Catholic Church," writes Jeff Fountain of Christian Today. Fountain reports that d
www1.cbn.com
www1.cbn.com
--------------------------

from Jimmy Akin on EWTN (the lead apolgeticist at Catholic .com)
quote
"Thus the position being condemned is the idea that we are justified by intellectual assent alone (as per James 2).
"We might rephrase the canon:
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by intellectual assent alone, so as to understand that nothing besides intellectual assent is required to cooperate in the attainment of the grace of justification . . . let him be anathema"

And every non-antinomian Protestant would agree with this, since in addition to intellectual assent one must also repent, trust, etc

"So Trent does not condemn the (good) Protestant understanding of faith alone."
"Thus Trent is only condemning one interpretation of the sola fides formula and not the formula itself."
-----------------------------

from faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."
end quote
--------------------

"But whatever in the justified
precedes or follows
the free gift of faith
is neither the basis of justification
nor merits it."
-The Vatican
 
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Bonnie said:
Actually, all you said was that her faith was not alone, not that her faith saved her. We know her faith produced the fruit of her loving acts towards Jesus, BUT--did He say those loving works helped to save her?

No, He simply said FAITH. Nothing else.
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Without "her loving acts towards Jesus" her faith would have been dead and would not have saved her.

In Luke 19 there is no mention of faith at all in this passage but Jesus said that salvation has come to this house".

So what brought salvation to Zacchaeus's house?
 
1Thess521 said:
and Popes
and Catholic apologeticists
and the Vatican website
and ECFs
etc

"Benedict affirmed that Luther had correctly translated Paul's words as 'justified by faith alone' -- the well known sola fide."

Pope Benedict XVI: 'Luther Was Right'​

"Luther would have been amazed at the efforts of the Vatican today to put the Bible back into the heart of the Roman Catholic Church," writes Jeff Fountain of Christian Today. Fountain reports that d
www1.cbn.com
www1.cbn.com


from Jimmy Akin on EWTN (the lead apolgeticist at Catholic .com)
quote
"Thus the position being condemned is the idea that we are justified by intellectual assent alone (as per James 2).
"We might rephrase the canon:
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by intellectual assent alone, so as to understand that nothing besides intellectual assent is required to cooperate in the attainment of the grace of justification . . . let him be anathema"

And every non-antinomian Protestant would agree with this, since in addition to intellectual assent one must also repent, trust, etc

"So Trent does not condemn the (good) Protestant understanding of faith alone."
"Thus Trent is only condemning one interpretation of the sola fides formula and not the formula itself."

"But whatever in the justified
precedes or follows
the free gift of faith
is neither the basis of justification
nor merits it."
-The Vatican
Click to expand...
Scripture alone doesn't say we are saved by faith alone.

What does Vatican II have to say about being justified/saved by faith alone.?

What does the CCC say about it?
 
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