If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?

You seem to know where the third one went?
The passages say the men left.

Someone spoke with Abraham. He also spoke while eating and was overheard by Sarah. Was Sarah praying, too? And laughed about what she heard?
The men spoke for God. Prophets do the same thing.

Who wrestled with Jacob? A prayer?
Genesis 32:22-31
A man. Men are called God in many places in Tanakh, ie, Exodus 7:1 shows Moses as God.

That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants
and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. After he had sent
them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So Jacob was left
alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that
he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that
his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.

Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”


The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.


Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,
because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”


Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.



So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face,
and yet my life was spared.”
Yep. Esau face was like seeing God as well.

Shalom! Its real when we are made able by God to know its real.
Yep.

Don't be like Pharaoh and harden your heart.
I'm not the one cut-off. Don't be the monkey with the music box.
 
The passages say the men left.


The men spoke for God. Prophets do the same thing.


A man. Men are called God in many places in Tanakh, ie, Exodus 7:1 shows Moses as God.


Yep. Esau face was like seeing God as well.


Yep.


I'm not the one cut-off. Don't be the monkey with the music box.
You are just another one with a circumcised frontal lobe. Your brain garbles and can not discern truth.


A man. Men are called God in many places in Tanakh, ie, Exodus 7:1 shows Moses as God.

Not God.
As "a" god.

And Jehovah/God said unto Moses,
"See, I have made you an 'elohiym/godhead to Pharaoh.


Where is your discernment?
 
You are just another one with a circumcised frontal lobe. Your brain garbles and can not discern truth.
That's funny coming from someone purporting to be Jewish and not understanding his own Bar Mitzvah.

I bet you undid your Bris to match your friends.

Not God.
As "a" god.
There's no "a" in the Hebrew.


And Jehovah/God said unto Moses,
"See, I have made you an 'elohiym/godhead to Pharaoh.
There's no a/an in the Hebrew. Where's your frontal lobe?

Where is your discernment?
Above yours. You can head back to the music box.
 
There's no "a" in the Hebrew.
Context dictated the meaning in translation. Moses never became God.

The link you gave was given a translation as follows: [as] God

Did Moses become God? Like the Angel of Jehovah was being God as he spoke from the burning bush?

In the mean while? Whom did Jacob wrestle with?

Is your God so limited as to not be able to make Himself appear and be manifested as a man?
 
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Context dictated the meaning in translation. Moses never became God.
He was before Pharaoh. Jesus was never God either.

The link you gave was given a translation as follows: [as] God
Yep, "as" was added too. It isn't in the language of the verse.

Did Moses become God? Like the Angel of Jehovah was being God as he spoke from the burning bush?
The angel of God... wait for it... was an angel. Moses was God before Pharaoh.

In the mean while? Whom did Jacob wrestle with?
A man.

Is your God so limited as to not be able to make Himself appear and be manifested as a man?
Ironically, your god was limited as a man. ;)
 
Bar Mitzvah was not practiced in ancient Israel.
I didn't say it was. But, you made up a whopper of a story, Post in thread 'If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?' https://forums.carm.org/threads/if-...trations-then-why-not-david.10560/post-812585.

It became a religious invention as a ceremony long after the diaspora (dispersion) of the unfaithful Israel.
You think?

Why are you cut-off?
 
Ironically, your god was limited as a man. ;)

Ironically... if he did not limit himself to being a man? No ones sins have been paid for on the Cross. Your words prove that He succeeded in making himself to be as a man. It was required to be so to die in the place of all men.

Philippians 2:6-8

Though he was in the form of God,
he did not regard equality with God
something to be possessed by force.
On the contrary, he emptied himself,
in that he took the form of a slave
by becoming like human beings are.
And when he appeared as a human being,
he humbled himself still more
by becoming obedient even to death —
death on a stake as a criminal!



We better pray that he made himself to be the perfect substitutionary sacrifice for all mankind. For the Temple with its atonement sacrifices (as demanded by God in the Law) was destroyed in 70 AD by Rome. According to the Law of Moses? There has been no more atonement for sin for almost 2000 years!.

How could God be so negligent to allow the destruction of the Temple for that long a time? If the atonement on the Cross was not viable? Its been almost 2000 years and no real atonement for men!

The next day, Yochanan (John the Baptist) saw Yeshua coming toward him and said,
“Look! the lamb of God! The one who is taking away the sin of the world!
John 1:29

The Cross of Christ was the antitype for the symbolic animal sacrifices that were not capable of taking away the sins of the world. For they had to be repeated over and over again. Jews today - according to the Law of Moses - have had no means for atonement. Not according to the Law of Moses. Not for 2000 years. Coincidentally, that close to the same amount of years ago as when the Cross was fulfilled.

So what is God up to with that? Letting the goyim replace the Temple sacrifices? With something not effectual?
 
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Ironically... if he did not limit himself to being a man? No ones sins have been paid for on the Cross. Your words prove that He succeeded in making himself to be as a man. It was required to be so to die in the place of all men.
It shows he wasn't the true God. I don't believe he was Messiah either.

Philippians 2:6-8

Though he was in the form of God,
he did not regard equality with God
something to be possessed by force.
On the contrary, he emptied himself,
in that he took the form of a slave
by becoming like human beings are.
And when he appeared as a human being,
he humbled himself still more
by becoming obedient even to death —
death on a stake as a criminal!
So, he wasn't really the God. Got it.

We better pray that he made himself to be the perfect substitutionary sacrifice for all mankind. For the Temple with its atonement sacrifices (as demanded by God in the Law) was destroyed in 70 AD by Rome.
True, only to return with the same priesthood, temple, sacrifices, Jeremiah 33:14-26.

According to the Law of Moses? There has been no more atonement for sin for almost 2000 years!.
Fortunately, the prophet Hosea spoke about this in Hosea 14:2, Hosea 3:4.

How could God be so negligent to allow the destruction of the Temple for that long a time? If the atonement on the Cross was not viable? Its been almost 2000 years and no real atonement for men!
Maybe for you.

The next day, Yochanan (John the Baptist) saw Yeshua coming toward him and said,
“Look! the lamb of God! The one who is taking away the sin of the world!
John 1:29

The Cross of Christ was the antitype for the symbolic animal sacrifices that were not capable of taking away the sins of the world. For they had to be repeated over and over again. Jews today - according to the Law of Moses - have had no means for atonement. Not according to the Law of Moses. Not for 2000 years. Coincidentally, that close to the same amount of years ago as when the Cross was fulfilled.

So what is God up to with that? Letting the goyim replace the Temple sacrifices? With something not effectual?
Being that Jesus' blood never made it to the altar per the commandments, his sacrifice was pretty worthless.
 
It shows he wasn't the true God. I don't believe he was Messiah either.


So, he wasn't really the God. Got it.


True, only to return with the same priesthood, temple, sacrifices, Jeremiah 33:14-26.


Fortunately, the prophet Hosea spoke about this in Hosea 14:2, Hosea 3:4.


Maybe for you.


Being that Jesus' blood never made it to the altar per the commandments, his sacrifice was pretty worthless.
Tell me one good reason to continue trying to convince you?

Just one good reason....
 
Well, if he was to satisfy the requirements of the commandments, he failed with his sacrifice. That's the reality.


Its just that what the animal sacrifice could only symbolize could not fulfill the reality it was representing.

Adam was told in the Garden that if he ate the forbidden fruit that he would die. He ate. He did die. But, not physically. For physically dead men do not run around finding fig leaves to cover his nakedness with.


Did the God of Moses lie when He told Adam the following? ...

Adonai, God, took the person and put him in the garden of ‘Eden to cultivate and care for it.
Adonai, God, gave the person this order: “You may freely eat from every tree in the garden
except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You are not to eat from it, because on
the day that you eat from it, it will become certain that you will die.” Genesis 2:15-17​


Adam ate and did not drop dead physically. But, he did die. God did not lie.

Or, did the God of Moses lie?


.......
 
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Its just that what the animal sacrifice could only symbolize could not fulfill the reality it was representing.
Sort of like Jesus supposed to be God but he really isn't? Human sacrifices weren't called for ever.

Adam was told in the Garden that if he ate the forbidden fruit that he would die. He ate. He did die. But, not physically. For physically dead men do not run around finding fig leaves to cover his nakedness with.
He did die in God's timing within a day. 1000 years are like a day...

Did the God of Moses lie when He told Adam the following? ...

Adonai, God, took the person and put him in the garden of ‘Eden to cultivate and care for it.
Adonai, God, gave the person this order: “You may freely eat from every tree in the garden
except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You are not to eat from it, because on
the day that you eat from it, it will become certain that you will die.” Genesis 2:15-17​
Why do you ask ridiculous questions that you know the answer to?

Adam ate and did not drop dead physically. But, he did die. God did not lie.
You think Sherlock?

Or, did the God of Moses lie?
See above.

BTW, I pretty much told you not to try to convince me anymore. You tried before and failed, and you're failing again.
 
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Sort of like Jesus supposed to be God but he really isn't? Human sacrifices weren't called for ever.


He did die in God's timing within a day. 1000 years are like a day...


Why do you ask ridiculous questions that you know the answer to?


You think Sherlock?


See above.

BTW, I pretty much told you not to try to convince me anymore. You tried before and failed, and you're failing again.
The Hebrew says "In dying you shall die." = Two deaths.

The result of one death (spiritual death) you will end up dying physically. Adam ate and became spiritually dead, yet remained physically alive. God did not lie when He said in the day you eat 'in dying you shall die." Two deaths were involved. One immediate.. one postponed.

And, that is why we need to be born again.

You are spiritually dead, yet physically alive.

That is why Jesus said concerning certain "religious" Jews, the following about their spiritual state.

Then another of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”
But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.
Matthew 8:21-22​


You in your present state are spiritually DEAD. And, you will harass spiritually alive ones like the Pharisees harassed Jesus. That is why we have such accounts on record in the Bible, so we can know what is going on when someone is both book-smart and irrational when trying to reason with them. We know you are dead inside to God, though you speak of Him by means of your academic recall. As a child, you probably did well on book reports most likely.;

At present.. You can not face it as reality. Many believers have had a heart to heart spiritual encounter with the Lord. Just like David did while tending the sheep in the fields. Knowing God comes as naturally to the born again soul like child learning to walk.

People like you have a problem ... being the snobs that you are. On the other hand. God is not a snob. He will regenerate anyone who believes. Even low IQ types. For He is not of an elitist mentality though He, being God, has every right to be a super elitist.

For He knows that once we are all in our resurrection bodies? That all IQ's will be beyond what we now perceive as genius. So.. He does not sweat it when He saves a sheep who now seems to be slow and stupid, and remains slow and stupid naturally.

But, you? You are spiritually dead. That is why Jesus explained to the Jewish leader Nicodemus that the Holy Spirit begets our human spirit.
That we need to be born spiritually. We need to be born again.

Where are you? I know I was born a Jew. Where are you?


.....................
 
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The Hebrew says "In dying you shall die." = Two deaths.
Or, it's just an emphasis that there's no turning back to the ultimate reality of death.

Many teach that the soul/spirit lives on being tortured in hell, so there's really no death in this thinking. It's in line with what the serpent taught that you will surely not die.

The result of one death (spiritual death) you will end up dying physically. Adam ate and became spiritually dead, yet remained physically alive. God did not lie when He said in the day you eat 'in dying you shall die." Two deaths were involved. One immediate.. one postponed.
But if the spirit lives on in hell, that isn't true. Physical death started immediately.

And, that is why we need to be born again.
Yep, the tree of life, the commandments.

You are spiritually dead, yet physically alive.
Rotfl... you're cut off.

That is why Jesus said concerning certain "religious" Jews, the following about their spiritual state.
Then another of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”
But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.
Matthew 8:21-22​
Which is a rather disgusting idea as there is a commandment to honor ones father, even so in death, and bury him. Bad teaching on Jesus' part.

In Deuteronomy 21:23, we see the commandment to bury a person executed for a capital crime. They are buried the same day. If honour is bestowed to a criminal so that the image of God isn't dishonored, how much more so our loved ones.

You in your present state are spiritually DEAD. And, you will harass spiritually alive ones like the Pharisees harassed Jesus. That is why we have such accounts on record in the Bible, so we can know what is going on when someone is both book-smart and irrational when trying to reason with them. We know you are dead inside to God, though you speak of Him by means of your academic recall. As a child, you probably did well on book reports most likely.;

At present.. You can not face it as reality. Many believers have had a heart to heart spiritual encounter with the Lord. Just like David did while tending the sheep in the fields. Knowing God comes as naturally to the born again soul like child learning to walk.
One that loves God follows His commands as easily as one trying to please your spouse in every matter. That's born again, the law being water and spirit.

People like you have a problem ... being the snobs that you are.
No problem on my part. The issue you have is that you're an apostate Jew and being called on it.

On the other hand. God is not a snob. He will regenerate anyone who believes. Even low IQ types. For He is not of an elitist mentality though He, being God, has every right to be a super elitist.
Then you might have a chance.

For He knows that once we are all in our resurrection bodies? That all IQ's will be beyond what we now perceive as genius. So.. He does not sweat it when He saves a sheep who now seems to be slow and stupid, and remains slow and stupid naturally.
Yep, so you're still a little lamb at your age.

But, you? You are spiritually dead. That is why Jesus explained to the Jewish leader Nicodemus that the Holy Spirit begets our human spirit.
That we need to be born spiritually. We need to be born again.
Yes, the spirit leads to obedience, Zechariah 7:12, Ezekiel 36:26-27.

Where are you?
On earth for now.

I know I was born a Jew.
As was I. But you're an apostate Jew now cut-off......

You can stop responding. I didn't ask for it.
Yi
 
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Or, it's just an emphasis that there's no turning back to the ultimate reality of death.
There is always a way out. A very simple command was circumnavigated by the serpent. "Thou shall not eat."

I do not expect to compel you to see what happened.

Notice that the Lord provided animal skins for Adam and Eve after they fell? When they had died spiritually?

Why animal skins? Blood was shed to provide a covering for them.

I know that you have to resist. Its your nature to resist the Holy Spirit.

For example.. Stephen gave a brilliant commentary to Jews about some of the history of the Jews. Absolutely brilliant!

Did they believe?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+6&version=NIV

and...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 7&version=NIV


.............
 
There is always a way out. A very simple command was circumnavigated by the serpent. "Thou shall not eat."

I do not expect to compel you to see what happened.

Notice that the Lord provided animal skins for Adam and Eve after they fell? When they had died spiritually?

Why animal skins? Blood was shed to provide a covering for them.

Where did you get that notion from?

I know that you have to resist. Its your nature to resist the Holy Spirit.

For example.. Stephen gave a brilliant commentary to Jews about some of the history of the Jews. Absolutely brilliant!

Did they believe?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+6&version=NIV

and...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 7&version=NIV


.............
 
There is always a way out. A very simple command was circumnavigated by the serpent. "Thou shall not eat."

I do not expect to compel you to see what happened.
So why are you trying?

Notice that the Lord provided animal skins for Adam and Eve after they fell? When they had died spiritually?

Why animal skins? Blood was shed to provide a covering for them.
Actually, nothing is said of killing animals.

I know that you have to resist. Its your nature to resist the Holy Spirit.
Actually, keeping the commandments is evidence of the Spirit, Zechariah 7:12, Ezekiel 36:26-27.

For example.. Stephen gave a brilliant commentary to Jews about some of the history of the Jews. Absolutely brilliant!
Stephen who?

I could care less about the apostate Stephen.
 
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