If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?
- Thread starter sk0rpi0n
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Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Yes, God revealed Himself to Abraham through the 3 men.
Yes, but also we see throughout Tanakh where Moses, kings, angels, Abraham, altars, are called God. There's a concept in Hebrew of a shaliach, an emissary, that has authority to speak and act on behalf of another. So all of these cases involve that idea.
Yes, looks like all of the men left.
That's your assumption. When we pray, we pray before the Lord, but we don't think of Him physically there.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Because he wasn't God.
Kind of like you flunked earlier elsewhere your explanation of a bar mitzvah and it's significance? Rotfl...
GeneZ
Well-known member
Good you acknowledged that. Yet, we later learn that they were angels when we see that two of them went to Sodom to rescue Lot and his family.
Angels can look just like men when materialized. It was revealing the state of form they appeared in, and then their real identity revealed shortly after.
One of those three men? In the form of a man? Remained behind as the other two went off to Sodom.
The one that remained? Is called Jehovah... He stayed and spoke alone with Abraham.
I suggest reading Genesis 18 again with that highlight in mind, please.
GeneZ
Well-known member
God? As in "Jehovah?" Show me.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Then my rabbi flunked in how it was explained.
You are not using the meaning that took place in the time of Israel when the Temple was still standing. You are using a modern concept that can no longer follow the original intent.
Why is the Temple no longer standing? For almost 2000 YEARS!
And Jews are scattered all over the world?
The Lord God warned in the Law that if his people failed in following his laws (inwardly, not simply outward superficiality) that He would scatter them al over the earth to live amongst the gentiles...
Lot's of luck Charley. I am a Jew who knows God like David knew God. Like all the prophets were able to know God. Spiritually. You are just a member of a religious club like the Pharisees were. Knowing a lot "about" God. But, not knowing God.
Do like the Pharisee Nicodemus and you will do well for your soul
......
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GeneZ
Well-known member
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.
It says that they were heading toward Sodom. The rest of the account? It reveals that only two (angels) went all the way.
For, one of those "men" stopped along the way and spoke with Abraham.
If you are trying to say that all three went to Sodom? How did that error make it into the Torah?
Genesis 19:1
"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city.
When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground."
.......
It says that they were heading toward Sodom. The rest of the account? It reveals that only two (angels) went all the way.
For, one of those "men" stopped along the way and spoke with Abraham.
If you are trying to say that all three went to Sodom? How did that error make it into the Torah?
Genesis 19:1
"The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city.
When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground."
.......
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
All 3 were angels, men.
Nothing says they materialized.
Nothing says an angel remained behind.
I think your confused. One spoke for Him throughout the visit.
Yep. God wasn't physically present.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
You need to work much harder at imagining your favorite doctrines into the text.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Was it your female Rabbi, messianic Rabbi, etc.?
And you are? Please show me your proof?
What does this have to do with the conversation?
Yes, and?
Yes.
Really? Have you read Zechariah 7:12?
Yep, he was a teacher of the law.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Yep.
Two went to Sodom.
That's mentioned no where.
I didn't say that.
And?
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Go get some cookies and milk.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Adam and the woman had a very simple Sesame Street level command that even a child could not mistake. Yet? They found a way.
And? You will always find a way as well.
I would be delusional to think you would be able to reason with divine viewpoint at this time.
God will get you if you are to be gotten. If not? You will always find a way to elude until the day you know you were dead all along.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Yep, we can say that about every situation when we sin. People boast how they'd never do that sin and then do it themselves.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
You're delusional even with your "divine" viewpoint.
I don't have the problem. You're the one cut-off.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Read carefully:
20 And the Lord said, “The outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah is indeed great, and their sin is exceedingly grave.
21 I will go down now, and see if they have done entirely according to its outcry, which has come to Me; and if not, I will know.”
22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the Lord.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Finish it!
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Yep, we're all said to be standing before the Lord when pray. Anything else?
GeneZ
Well-known member
How many angels went to Sodom? Three?
What does your Torah say?
How many appeared at Abraham's tent in Genesis 18? Two?
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
2.
2. The men went towards Sodom. There are other cities along the way. We aren't told where the 3rd went.
3.
GeneZ
Well-known member
You seem to know where the third one went?
Someone spoke with Abraham. He also spoke while eating and was overheard by Sarah. Was Sarah praying, too? And laughed about what she heard?
Who wrestled with Jacob? A prayer?
Genesis 32:22-31
That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants
and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. After he had sent
them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. So Jacob was left
alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. When the man saw that
he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that
his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.
Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”
But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
The man asked him, “What is your name?”
“Jacob,” he answered.
Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel,
because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.
So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face,
and yet my life was spared.”
Shalom! Its real when we are made able by God to know its real.
Don't be like Pharaoh and harden your heart.