How does God make a person "elect" and a "child of God"?
- Thread starter Tercon
- Start date
One way what?
Strawman and evasion. Why don't you just let the Holy Spirit reveal what the Bible defines it? Or do you just want to continue playing word game with yourself.
A believing one, that's all that's required. Belief is what opens up heavens doors and the only way that a believer can receive what the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit has for them.
He certainly does, He draws them to the cross to believe and receive what God has done for them.
Yodas_Prodigy
Well-known member
As I read this OP, I am thinking you really don't understand God, theology, or Calvinism. Or, you are looking to somehow trap someone.
So, let's keep this simple. God is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He also as a plan that is providentially carried out. He is quite capable of revealing Himself in various ways to His sheep.
I am also reminded that God gives each of His sheep a measure of faith, chooses them, calls them, draws them, regenerates them, and keeps them...
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
Why do people call it game playing when they are unable to answer a question? The first time I asked, you could have given your definition of a believing mind. But you chose to throw some other stuff at me and avoid a simple direct answer, and then accuse me of playing games.
Again: Define what YOU mean by a "believing mind."
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
I see your reference to Romans 12:3 NASB "...God has allotted to each a measure of faith."
You added the word "sheep" to show how you think the verse fits Calvinism.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
We simply take into account who the verse is actually addressed to. Its called audience relevance
CrowCross
Well-known member
That God shows you about Jesus.
Yodas_Prodigy
Well-known member
Does God give a measure of faith to goats?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
You wonder why if God gives a measure of faith universally He does not give a faith that saves.
What is it that I am saying that is so controversial? The Bible talks more about belief and believing than anything else; besides Christ himself of course.
Okay, if you are "the elect", then how is God God, what is He or what does He do that makes Him God?
How does He create His children in His own image and likeness?
No, you're just being paranoid.
I agree, but every one of those "various ways" has to involve belief and believing wouldn't you say?
Yes and all involving belief and believing in order to take place.
Again, you are evading what is being said to you. Do you trust the Bible or not?
You're playing a word game with yourself because you're not interested in the truth.
Rather, you're asking me questions about what I mean by things and I am showing you by directing you to the Bible where it I took the definition from and where it mentions belief and a believing mind 500+ times. So, obviously if you don't trust me, then let the Bible define for you what "a believing mind" means, because that's exactly where I took the definition from. Read every verse.
But if you're not interested in what I am saying or mean by what I am saying, then stop wasting my time and accusing me of not answering your questions, because you are being dishonest. You just get to ask the question, but you don't get to answer the question for me as well. Understand?
I can only conclude that your intentions are not sincere and you are just virtual signaling to the others here who just don't know either.
Do you mean what believers believe about Jesus?
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
The verse is addressed to all. Is about all.
I know from previous chats that Calvinist claim that because the letter has an immediate audience that everything is directed at them.
But that is a simplistic approach that does not fit the language, so Calvinists bend the language to fit their doctrine.
Here is a parallel example.
Talking to a room of students, the teacher says "all breathe air." You know from the topic that the teacher does not mean only these students breathe air. So in our context, how do you know that only the immediate audience has been given faith?
Why do you assume "all" means "all elect and only all elect"?
this post is false in the assertion that the phrase "believing mind" appears 500+ times
Again, why is it so hard to supply a definition for your own , non-biblical, term?
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
By "goats" I assume you mean those at the end of time who have rejected Christ?
If so, then yes. They were given enough faith to understand thath God exists and created the universe
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Its not the simplistic approach at all. Its a basic hermeneutical principle is audience relevance. Who is the text relevant to. Who is Paul addressing?
The teacher to the class. All of you must turn in their homework by Friday. Is this addressed or relevant to the school in the next county?
CrowCross
Well-known member
Lydia heard and understood what Paul was preaching.
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
You make a point here which is valid, but you don't incorporate that point into your interpretation,
In your example, the teacher's language identified the group. They said "you" and "homework" which claified who and what is the topic.
Also you ignored my example without any comment.
But my example and your example both demonstrate context based on other words in the sentence, which is the problem with your interpretatiom of "all have faith" You are going back a distance into the letter to determine context instead of starting with immediate context.
Another point, you claim basic hermeneutics, yet show no hermeneutics in interpreting the orginal verse. If you are not actually using the discipline why do you cling to it as your proof, and to the contrary if you are using hermeneutics, why don't you explain what and how?
Yodas_Prodigy
Well-known member
That is not saving faith... Anyone can believe God exists. Also, Goats don't become sheep. And sheep don't become goats...
John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.