Reformedguy
Well-known member
I challenge any one to read it and show me where he actually answers the question.
If the following is true:
- Thread starter Leatherneck0311
- Start date
GINO:JC, to all.
correct, haven't read all the responses, but Reformedguy hit it on the head. here's why. Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (STOP AND READ THOSES VERSE AGAIN). now let's continue,
Romans 9:9 "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son." Romans 9:10 "And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;" Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
" BINGO THERE IS OUR ANSWER, "HE THAT CALLETH").Romans 9:12 "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger." Romans 9:13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:14 "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid." Romans 9:15 "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
and God showed MERCY by sending his son to taker our place in death, by removing sin. and now it's up to us to answer his Call. and do we have FAITH to answer his call? yes, scripture, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."
as said by Reformedguy, if he wants to. so no one can blame God, no, but your OWN-SELF.
PICJAG, 101G
Simpletruther
Well-known member
I reject part of the second premise. God is also responsible for our sins.
Christian
Well-known member
I reject both of your above sentences. Man is guilty for his own sins and held responsible by God to give an account for his own sins against God.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
I think its better to say he can repent if he wants to. But he can't want to.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
I would say it's not a matter of ability but of desire.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
But they are connected. Does the natural man have the ability to desire God?
Simpletruther
Well-known member
I agree.
Christian
Well-known member
Jer 29
12Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. 14I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivity and gather you from all the nations and places to which I have banished you, declares the LORD. I will restore you to the place from which I sent you into exile.
Certainly, God is love. However, this is fleshed out in a biblical way that looks different than various brands of philosophical speculation. The phrase, "he is maximally loving," is a philosophical concept that you seem to be imposing on scripture because there is absolutely no biblical passage that says this of God. There are plenty of passages and situations (simpletruther has stated several over the years) that would directly call into question your philosophical speculation. These passages and situations lead me to endorse the biblical teaching that God is love, but I'm forced to conclude the "maximally loving" ideology to be in error.
Sin is certainly the problem. I would posit a distinction between "responsibility" and "culpability." Creation is culpable and sinful; but in a non-culpable holy sense, God is responsible due to His overarching decree. Because the Bible directly and explicitly denies creaturely autonomy (sketo has presented the verses MANY times already), we have to maintain creation's dependence upon God for existence, which means that God is responsible for creation's existence, and sin is a part of creation. Therefore, I see no need to imagine up some ideological view of the will (libertarian freedom) that contradictions explicit revelation. Human beings are responsible, choice-making, creatures that will be held accountable for their sin by a perfectly holy, all-knowing, good God. He is such because He is simply the highest standard for the meaning of goodness, holiness, and love.
I'm clearly not Arminian, but I used to be until 2003.
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Christian
Well-known member
Sin as part of creation is a fallacious argument since God declared everything He created was good in Genesis 1. Sin is a result of rebellion against God, not a creation . It’s a consequence of disobedience of the angels and man . God is not the author or creator of sin .
The fall happened (Gen 3) after He declared creation's goodness (Gen 1). Beware arguing using anachronism. The fall impacted creation and humanity. No one said God created sin.
You need to make a distinction between "creation" as an act of God "in the beginning" and "creation" as the entity outside of God Himself.
Christian
Well-known member
I agree with this above
Your previous post said God was responsible implying culpability. Could you clarify this , thanks !
Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."
THAT QUESTION IS ANSWERED,
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?" Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." Romans 10:19 "But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you." Romans 10:20 "But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me." Romans 10:21 "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."
and the apostle Peter makes it very clear. Acts 2:37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
My question is this, "is the Lord calling today?" answer ..... "YES".
101G
what did the apostle Peter say? "Save yourselves "
THAT QUESTION IS ANSWERED,
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?" Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." Romans 10:19 "But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you." Romans 10:20 "But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me." Romans 10:21 "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."
and the apostle Peter makes it very clear. Acts 2:37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?" Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."
"For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
My question is this, "is the Lord calling today?" answer ..... "YES".
101G
what did the apostle Peter say? "Save yourselves "
I added an edited comment at the end about distinguishing between "creation" as an act of God "in the beginning" and "creation" as that which exists other than God.I agree with this above
Christian
Well-known member
Ok thanks
Simpletruther
Well-known member
Amen.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
You speak as if the two are in conflict.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Nope. I agree. You cannot if you do not will to.