Arch Stanton
Well-known member
As a former history teacher ---
actually it has to do with one of His fallen angels
Guess what today (Oct. 31, 2022) is, and it's not halloween...
- Thread starter Lastdaysbeliever
- Start date
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
So you say...am I supposed to feign respect? OK. Wow. You're a former history teacher? Neat-o!As a former history teacher ---
Ridiculous and deflective, again. Get to know why Martin Luther tacked the 95 these to the Wittenberg Church. Then look at what your religious, ecclesiastical leaders did to try and stop him.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Indeed I do.... what I did not say was this ?
Too many fallen Catholics --
Gal 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock
Mt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming.
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
You deny history when you deflect to tropes, totally deflecting from the reality that the reformation happened.
So you think using these verses invalidates what Luther started. Got it. No wonder you are yoked and enslaved to the false teachings of the Roman Catholic belief system. You might as well be a mormon.Too many fallen Catholics --
Gal 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”
Acts 20:29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock
Mt 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming.
Mysterium Fidei
Well-known member
Protestantism was born because Luther killed a companion in a duel and went into a monastery to avoid prosecution. He never really had a vocation. So he became an Augustinian friar who couldn't control his concupiscence. He came up with faith alone because he needed to be able to call himself holy all the while being a sexual degenerate.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
nothing to deflect, but nice try -- the protesters revolt is just that -- a revolt against Christ and His Church
Yep -- The Church is the pillar of truth and the wisdom of God is made known through Her
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
Ah, so now you admit there was a reformation. That's, at least, a start.
I don't see much wisdom in the musings of mariolators and those who submit their salvation to men and an institution. It's too bad we can't find any common ground Arch. You seem like a genuine person and I'm certain in person we'd have much more to talk about.
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
The reformation was born because the Roman Catholic church refused to even debate the 95 theses Luther posted on the doors of the Wittenberg church. Nothing less, nothing more. The fault of the Roman Catholic church but then that institution has always feared the truth of the Gospel message and how it would free those who are yoked and enslaved to its rules, dogmas and traditions.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
Where did I say reformation -- to reform is from within --- that was a revolt against Christ and His Church
We probably would find common ground LDB!!!.... I truly don't understand why so many people attack the Catholic Church
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
You say potato, I say potawto. Call it what you will but what happened then was the consequence of your religious institutions failures.
Certainly, you must know. Just as you defend the Roman Catholic church and I understand why you do, it's not a mystery either side of the aisle.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
I know there would be hardened hearts, but I don't understand why followers of Christ would think His Church would fall into apostasy and that God would allow corruption of the gospel for 1,500 years.
My belief is pretty simple -- Christ established a Church, protected it, and gave no expiration date. Pretty simple stuff.
Mysterium Fidei
Well-known member
You have an extremely inaccurate view of the reality of the matter.
Leipzig Debate - Wikipedia
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
The Roman pope said of Luther, he was a drunk German monk and would change when he sobered up. Doesn't seem the Roman pope of that time took Luther seriously.You have an extremely inaccurate view of the reality of the matter.
Leipzig Debate - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Tertiumquid
Well-known member
No. See my old entry here. If you scroll down to the bottom of the entry, one of the editors of Luther's Works wrote me and dispelled this myth. He writes:
In the early 1980's, Dietrich Emme popularized the theory that Martin Luther entered the Augustinian monastery in Erfurt not due to his experience in a storm, but in order to escape prosecution after killing a companion (Hieronymus Buntz) in a duel in 1505 (Martin Luther: Sein Jugend- und Studentenzeit 1483-1505 [Cologne, 1982]). Emme's work on this point has been widely dismissed in recent scholarship as piling one speculative conclusion upon another (e.g., Andreas Lindner, "Was geschah in Stotternheim," in C. Bultmann, V. Leppin, eds., Luther und das monastische Erbe [Tübingen, 2007], pp. 109-10; cf. Franz Posset, The Front-Runner of the Catholic Reformation: The Life and Works of Johann von Staupitz[Aldershot: Ashgate, 2003], 94, and the response by Helmar Junghans, Lutherjahrbuch 72 [2005]:190).
The standard biographer of Luther claims that Hieronymus Buntz died of plague (Martin Brecht, Martin Luther: His Road to Reformation, 1483-1521 [Minneapolis: Fortress, 1985], 47), and this is documented in sources from 1505 (http://books.google.com/books?id=r2...&pg=PA34#v=onepage&q=Hieronymus Buntz&f=false).
The "duel theory" relies on one of Luther's Table Talks: "By the singular plan of God I became a monk, so that they would not capture me. Otherwise I would have been captured easily. But they were not able to do it, because the entire Order took care of me" (D. Martin Luthers Werke: kritische Gesamtausgabe[Weimar Edition]: Tischreden, vol. 1 [Weimar: Hermann Böhlaus Nachfolger, 1912], p. 134, no. 326). Yet this refers to the Augustinian order's protection of Luther from Rome in 1518, not a putative flight from prosecution for dueling in 1505.
If Luther's "duel" were true, it would have been a matter of rather public knowledge, both casually, among students and the monks, and officially, both with whatever civil or episcopal authorities were supposedly trying to arrest Luther, as well as because a dispensation would have been required for Luther's ordination (homicide being a canonical impediment for the sacrament of order). In other words, it would be practically unthinkable that when the Roman Catholic polemical biographer of Luther, Johannes Cochlaeus, was searching for data about Luther's monastic career (and coming up with stories like Luther wailing in the choir) that such a "fact," if true or even rumored, would not have emerged.
Dr. Christopher Boyd Brown, general editor, Luther’s Works: American Edition
Dr. Benjamin T. G. Mayes, managing editor, Luther’s Works: American Edition
Bonnie
Super Member
I have,, but like you, it was a long time ago.
Bonnie
Super Member
The pope who said that must have been drunk at the time....
Bonnie
Super Member
Just an FYI--I have been to a number of Reformation church services and what I found striking is that nowhere was Luther even mentioned, except once, in passing, when the presiding minister said "Today we celebrate the Gospel message that Martin Luther rediscovered in the pages of the Bible." And then the service commenced with hymns. The other services didn't even mention him this way. Instead, the entire focus of the church services was the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. That always impressed me.
Bonnie
Super Member
The English translation of what you quoted in your first link is a very poor one; some parts of it are very confusing and almost incomprehensible. But this is the first that I have heard of some supposed "duel."
Tertiumquid
Well-known member
That link of mine is now 12 years old. I haven't searched out the "duel" theory since then, perhaps there are now more (and better) sources. Looking at my old entry, it was provoked by Father Mitch Pacwa attempting to put together a Reformation series to be released in 2017. I haven't checked, but I don't think he ever finished the project. The value of my old link is that editors of Luther's Works actually visited my blog and left the comment I posted above.
Bonnie
Super Member
I am glad that the editors DID comment on what you posted!