The correlation between guns and mass murders

LifeIn said:
The founding fathers also thought codifying slavering into the constitution was a good idea at the time.
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Like the Old Testament? What about the New where Jesus uses slaves as examples?
LifeIn said:
That idea became outdated and was changed with amendments.
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That only works under fixed assumptions from the Bible like equality. Slavery has always been with us. It is simply stealthy or modified these days. Nike shoes made by wage slaves. Humans benefit from slave wages meaning low prices on many items we buy. We are importing slavery from our southern borders. If there is money to be made in human trafficking then people will sell and buy humans for slaves. There is also debt slavery.
LifeIn said:
There is no reason to believe it can't happen to the outdated idea of absolute gun rights.
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So you are in favor of forfeiting gun rights to females living alone having a gun for self protection against home invaders who would rape and kill her for fun. Leaving her defenseless.
 
Harry Leggs said:
So you are in favor of forfeiting gun rights to females living alone having a gun for self protection against home invaders who would rape and kill her for fun. Leaving her defenseless.
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They seemingly are not "pro-choice" on female self defense except abortion. They call the baby an invader. (these 8 lb invaders leave in 9 months)
 
Eightcrackers said:
Were we able to travel back in time to the Founding with today's weapons and ask the Founders

"Do you want everybody to have access to these?"

what do we think they would say...?
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They would say yes. Because they themselves had multiple semi-automatic weapons, a gun that was essentially an early machine gun, and literally included cannons as things citizens could bear arms with.

Not to mention your argument is braindead as we could similarly show them the internet (including posts like yours) and ask them if they want everyone to be able to exercise free speech on such devices.
 
Eightcrackers said:
Were we able to travel back in time to the Founding with today's weapons and ask the Founders

"Do you want everybody to have access to these?"

what do we think they would say...?
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That would be idle speculation. It is unlikely the founding fathers could fully appreciate the nature of modern weapons, or the nature of modern society in anything less that some number of years. Their opinion on such matters, assuming we could ask them, would be no more valuable than asking a middle-schooler of today.
 
Furion said:
They also thought this, from the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn
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Fine so far, but then you drew this conclusion:

Furion said:
The right of the people owning a firearm shall not be infringed, and the right of the people to abolish the three headed monster liberals created cannot be infringed.
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But you see the Declaration of Independence was not about those specific rights, unless you think that "certain unalienable rights" includes the right to own an AK-47. But then you would have to present evidence to that effect, which you have not done.
 
Harry Leggs said:
Like the Old Testament? What about the New where Jesus uses slaves as examples?
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You are not seriously supporting institutional slavery, condoned by the US government, are you?

Harry Leggs said:
So you are in favor of forfeiting gun rights to females living alone having a gun for self protection against home invaders who would rape and kill her for fun. Leaving her defenseless.
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She would have less to defend against if there was not such a saturation level of guns. Women are often the victims of gun violence, and all the more so in countries with a surplus of guns.

Authentic Nouveau said:
They seemingly are not "pro-choice" on female self defense except abortion. They call the baby an invader. (these 8 lb invaders leave in 9 months)
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Who do you mean by "they"?
 
LifeIn said:
That would be idle speculation. It is unlikely the founding fathers could fully appreciate the nature of modern weapons, or the nature of modern society in anything less that some number of years. Their opinion on such matters, assuming we could ask them, would be no more valuable than asking a middle-schooler of today.
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Actually they'd understand it and appreciate it more than you know. Indeed, there were many multi-fire/semi-auto weapons that existed in those days (even the puckle gun which was a primitive machine gun). They saw great advances in weapons technology during their lifetimes, same as other technologies. Hell, they even included literal cannons as arms that were protected under the 2nd Amendment (I own one of the cannons from that time period, actually)
 
Gondwanaland said:
Actually they'd understand it and appreciate it more than you know. Indeed, there were many multi-fire/semi-auto weapons that existed in those days (even the puckle gun which was a primitive machine gun). They saw great advances in weapons technology during their lifetimes, same as other technologies. Hell, they even included literal cannons as arms that were protected under the 2nd Amendment (I own one of the cannons from that time period, actually)
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Still, there is no reason to revere the wisdom of the founding fathers more than all the people that followed and who came to see the consequences of dense city living with a plethora of guns.
 
Harry Leggs said:
Like the Old Testament? What about the New where Jesus uses slaves as examples?

That only works under fixed assumptions from the Bible like equality. Slavery has always been with us. It is simply stealthy or modified these days. Nike shoes made by wage slaves. Humans benefit from slave wages meaning low prices on many items we buy. We are importing slavery from our southern borders. If there is money to be made in human trafficking then people will sell and buy humans for slaves. There is also debt slavery.

So you are in favor of forfeiting gun rights to females living alone having a gun for self protection against home invaders who would rape and kill her for fun. Leaving her defenseless.
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Most decent people are against slavery

glad I don’t have to try to rationalize thinking my magic book of morality thinks slavery’s okey-dokey
 
LifeIn said:
Fine so far, but then you drew this conclusion:


But you see the Declaration of Independence was not about those specific rights, unless you think that "certain unalienable rights" includes the right to own an AK-47. But then you would have to present evidence to that effect, which you have not done.
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What are you on about?

The Second Amendment is a part of the constitution.
 
Furion said:
What are you on about?

The Second Amendment is a part of the constitution.
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Yes, but the post was about the Declaration of Independence, which preceded the constitution by 11 years. As for the second amendment, it too is subject to reconsideration, just like the 18th amendment. There is nothing eternally sacred about these documents. They are in force so long as the nation that is ruled by them agrees to keep them in force. I personally would love to see the 2nd amendment repealed, as the need for it has long passed, in my opinion.
 
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