The "IT" Logos

[shroom]

This actually happened just like Christ actually came down from heaven.

When was Jesus Christ crucified? ~2000 years ago, or from the foundation of the world?

As I said, you make no sense.

 

[Towerwatchman]

He did provide proof. Only an idiot without access to the sources specifically cited would claim otherwise.


Because you’re too lazy to track down the sources he cited to verify his claims for yourself.

When a lawyer cites case law to establish precedent, does opposing council ask for “a snapshot” from the book? or is he or she expected to have actually done their own homework during preparation for their case?


And if you weren’t so lazy, you could track down the sources he cited and settle the matter without using “hedging” as a disguise for an intelligent argument.


Prove any of that. Oh I forgot, you’d have to actually get off your rear end and track down his sources.


ROFLOL!!!


Nope, I just try to point out the pretenders when I see them.

Amazing how pitiful your existence must be, to keep track of mine.

 

[Towerwatchman]

I gave you one. This one. I predict you will find a reason to discount it.

But I have refuted your claim.

The Scriptures Bible
“And said, YHWH, if now I have found favor (grace in Hebrew) in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:” (Genesis 18:3)

I am ordering the translation. If it is YHWH, you have found YHWH in plural form, and it can only apply to the Trinity. The most I ever found was two YHWH in one verses, you might have three. Thanks to inbound 68 for insisting I continue with the discussion.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

This happened in a sense????

Yes. Jesus Christ did not preexist his conception except in God's plan.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

This happened in a sense????

See above.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

In a sense Jesus existed prior to the world existing.

Yes, in the same way that Christ was crucified from the foundation of the world.

To be honest the only thing that doesn't make "sense" is you and the way you inserted your senseless concept of Jesus not existing prior to His incarnation when the Word who was Goad...and by the way with God ....became flesh.

All previously discussed. You have bought into Trinitarianism and it skews your understanding.

The above is clear example of how one can reject Scripture while saving face. Never answer questions directly. Pretend previous points were clearly established without further comment. Think throwing out an excuse helps...

Hello, You nether explained how Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the world. nor how Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was. You just don't believe what Scripture says. That's why you are acting like this.

BTW, how did Jesus do all this creating when He had no pre-incarnate existence?

He didn't.

A huge Neon Sign above shroom's head saying I REJECT WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS!!!

God Bless

 

[CrowCross]

When was Jesus Christ crucified? ~2000 years ago, or from the foundation of the world?

It's not as simple as you seem to understand it.

"The Lamb hath been slain from the foundation of the world," because from "the foundation of the world" his death has been efficacious for the salvation of men;

Other translation put it this way..or similiar...and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
The Greek may also be rendered....Written in the slain lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

From what I read you don't have enough information to make your comparison.

Keep in mind Jesus created the universe...which would have had to proceed His physical incarnation which happend when He came down from heaven.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

I am ordering the translation. If it is YHWH, you have found YHWH in plural form, and it can only apply to the Trinity. The most I ever found was two YHWH in one verses, you might have three. Thanks to inbound 68 for insisting I continue with the discussion.

How does Abraham addressing the three angels as YHWH (because they are His angels) make Him plural?

 

[Our Lord's God]

“Which” is not referring to Jesus but the ‘message’ concerning Jesus, events to which John is testifying. John is writing about things “concerning” Jesus rather than Jesus personally.

"Which" is referring to the Word of Life.

You certainly are adept at hanging yourself.

 

[shroom]

The above is clear example of how one can reject Scripture while saving face. Never answer questions directly. Pretend previous points were clearly established without further comment.

CCs pet verses have been addressed many, many times. Doing so again would be pointless.

Think throwing out an excuse helps...

There was no excuse.

Hello, You nether explained how Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the world. nor how Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was.

Both were in God's plan.

You just don't believe what Scripture says.

I absolutely do believe what scripture says.

That's why you are acting like this.

A huge Neon Sign above shroom's head saying I REJECT WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS!!!

God Bless

You're a staunch Trinitarian too. Your understanding is as skewed as CCs.

 

[shroom]

It's not as simple as you seem to understand it.

"The Lamb hath been slain from the foundation of the world," because from "the foundation of the world" his death has been efficacious for the salvation of men;

When did it happen?

Other translation put it this way..or similiar...and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
The Greek may also be rendered....Written in the slain lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

I am familiar with that understanding. I do not agree with it.

From what I read you don't have enough information to make your comparison.

I asked you a simple question: When was Jesus Christ crucified?

Keep in mind Jesus created the universe...

No he didn't. God did. See Gen 1:1.

which would have had to proceed His physical incarnation which happend when He came down from heaven.

The "incarnation" is a fabrication of Trinitarians. Jesus Christ was conceived. That was the beginning of his existence.

 

[johnny guitar]

Those who are born from above also came down from heaven. So what's your point?

Only ONE Person came down from heaven: Jesus Christ.

 

[johnny guitar]

When did it happen?


I am familiar with that understanding. I do not agree with it.


I asked you a simple question: When was Jesus Christ crucified?


No he didn't. God did. See Gen 1:1.


The "incarnation" is a fabrication of Trinitarians. Jesus Christ was conceived. That was the beginning of his existence.

Beginning of His existence as a MAN.

 

[johnny guitar]

Just to clarify your TRINITARIAN doctrine…

Was Christ still in heaven after he came down from heaven?

Christ, The Son of God is omnipresent at all times.

 

[johnny guitar]

Just to clarify your TRINITARIAN doctrine…

When God Himself is speaking, does that mean God the Father is speaking?

Depends on the passage in question.

 

[shroom]

Beginning of His existence as a MAN.

Jesus was crucified at the beginning of his existence as a man?

You'd better think about that one, Johnny.

In fact, you should think about what it is you believe. You have put your foot in your mouth several times the last few weeks, saying one thing then a few posts later contradicting yourself.

 

[johnny guitar]

Yes. Jesus Christ did not preexist his conception except in God's plan.


See above.


Yes, in the same way that Christ was crucified from the foundation of the world.


All previously discussed. You have bought into Trinitarianism and it skews your understanding.


He didn't.

Christ's crucifixion was ordained from the foundation of the world, NOT His existence.

 

[johnny guitar]

Jesus was crucified at the beginning of his existence as a man?

You'd better think about that one, Johnny.

In fact, you should think about what it is you believe. You have put your foot in your mouth several times the last few weeks, saying one thing then a few posts later contradicting yourself.

Strawman. The crucifixion of Christ The Son of God was ordained from the foundation of the world.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

The above is clear example of how one can reject Scripture while saving face. Never answer questions directly. Pretend previous points were clearly established without further comment.

CCs pet verses have been addressed many, many times. Doing so again would be pointless.

Your responses to these verses are laughably bad. I wouldn't be able to stop laughing if you were not using them to reject Christ and his salvation.

Think throwing out an excuse helps...

There was no excuse.

Hello, You nether explained how Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the world. nor how Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was.

Both were in God's plan.

So what? That Jesus was in God's plan doesn't even come close to exampling how Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was. You are describing God planing to share glory with Jesus while Jesus said he previously had glory with the Father. NOT THE SAME THING!!!

You just don't believe what Scripture says.

I absolutely do believe what scripture says.

That's why you are acting like this.

A huge Neon Sign above shroom's head saying I REJECT WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS!!!

You're a staunch Trinitarian too. Your understanding is as skewed as CCs.

Seriously dude, turn off that neon sign. It hurts my eyes.

God Bless

 

[CrowCross]

When did it happen?

Physically or when was it deemed to happen?

I am familiar with that understanding. I do not agree with it.

You don't have to agree with in...nor are you allowed to agree with it.
Personally both work for me and Jesus being pre-existent prior to the incarnation when the Word who was God became flesh.

I asked you a simple question: When was Jesus Christ crucified?

About 2,000 years ago.

No he didn't. God did. See Gen 1:1.

I've seen Gen 1;1....and also read where God said, ...Let us make man in our image. I can give you the chapter and verse if you like.

The "incarnation" is a fabrication of Trinitarians. Jesus Christ was conceived. That was the beginning of his existence.

Jesus said, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began” (John 17:5).

There is also....
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

John the baptist said....
John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’”

Do you have any verses that say "Christ came into existence at his birth or that he was a created being?"....or are you going to hold onto the "sense" theology?

There's more but I tire of explaining this to you.

 

[Towerwatchman]

"Which" is referring to the Word of Life.

You certainly are adept at hanging yourself.

Yea we should take your word for it.

 

[Towerwatchman]

How does Abraham addressing the three angels as YHWH (because they are His angels) make Him plural?

YHWH does not share his glory. If it is YHWH it cannot be angels