No, he didn't, he died for the sheep jn 10:15
A Problem for the Ransom Theory Positing Jesus Died for the Sons of All ...
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Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
John 3:16 says Jesus died for “whosoever” believes. The believers are His sheep.
Actually, I don't believe, "whosoever," appears in the Greek text.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
I believe it does but then again I put zero stock in anything Westcott and Hort touched.
whosoever
g3956
A-NSM
πᾶς πᾶςpas. Found in John 3:16. www.blueletter.com
It is not a textual issue
John 3:16 (TR1550MR)
16 ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον αυτου τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
John 3:16 (Westcott)
16 ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
John 3:16 (Elzevir)
16 ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον αυτου τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
John 3:16 (Scrivener 1881)
16 Οὕτω γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται, ἀλλʼ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον.
John 3:16 (Stephens)
16 ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον αυτου τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
A literal translation
John 3:16 (YLT)
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
(MLV2017) For* God so loved* the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that everyone who believes in him might not perish, but may have everlasting life.
(ALT) "For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten [or, unique] Son, so that every [one] believing [or, trusting] in Him shall not perish, but shall be having eternal life!
(LITV) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I agree, "all the believing ones," not "whosoever" believes, that a translator bias, IMO.
ok
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
All the believing ones aren’t whosoever believes ? Explain how the two are not one and the same.
The discussion is simply about the meaning of the text and how it should be translated
Theo1689
Well-known member
Wrong.
John 3:16 says Jesus died for whosoever BELIEVES.
The atonement is limited to BELIEVERS.
Jesus did not die for unbelievers.
When you say, "the believers are His sheep", are you trying to say the believers "become" His sheep"? Because if you are, you are wrong.
They do not become sheep "because" they believe.
They believe "because" they are (already) His sheep:
John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
Notice that it does NOT say, "you are not my sheep because you do not believe".
Being His sheep is the cause of believing.
For those who are not aware, this poster is a KJV-only, who has an irrational hatred of Westcott and Hort. But the poster is so ignorant that he is completely unaware that the issue in John 3:16 is not an issue of the underlying text.
Since I can read Greek, and you clearly can't, let me explain the text to you. For your comfort, I will quote from the TR.
ἵνα ("in order that", "that")
πᾶς ("every")
ὁ πιστεύων ("believing one")
εἰς ("in")
αὐτὸν ("him")
The "pas", which is translated as "whosoever" in the KJV, modifies "believing one", and simply means that of the subset of "believing ones" in the world, whom Christ died for, Christ died for ALL of those believing ones.
In the same way that "every child" does not include adults,
in the same way that "every pen" does not include pencils,
in the same way, "every believing one" does not include unbelievers.
Not if one believes the bible
Christ died short list
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
BTW the reason they were not Jesus sheep is because they were not the Fathers sheep
had they been the Father's sheep they would have been given to Christ and become their sheep
Did God know, before the world began, who would believe. And who not believe?
Do you believe the bible about that, Tom? ?
Yes but why did you change the subject
Not if one believes the bible
Christ died for all
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
BTW the reason they were not Jesus sheep is because they were not the Fathers sheep
Jesus died for His people, a particular redemption Mt 1:21.
Along with all people
You cannot accept just one scripture while ignoring many
Christ died for all
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
BTW the reason they were not Jesus sheep is because they were not the Fathers sheep
It's been established we don't agree on this, Tom.
G
guest1
Guest
He enjoys bait n switch with you
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
John 3;16 Says Jesus died for whoever believes in Him.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Yes, and "His people" are going to be the ones who believe in Him.
Because God gives them faith (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 Cor. 4:7).
That's how God "draws" them (John 6:44).
You and he enjoying whining when the rules you've established for everyone are ignored because you have no authority to establish said rules. If it's too tough for you to follow along, don't get involved in the discussion..