A Straight Answer, Please!

[treeplanter]

Minus Jesus Christ, every human being since Adam is born with a corrupt nature that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to live a righteous life of total sinlessness

According to Christian teaching, the corrupt nature that inevitably compels our sin is inherited from Adam
However, an inability to refrain from defying God {i.e. sin}, at least once in a lifetime, is NOT a naturally inheritable trait!

Hair color, for example, is an inheritable trait
Taking the name of the Lord in vain, for example, is NOT an inheritable trait!

Clearly, that each of us are born with corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin had to have been by the free will choice of a moral agent

If it wasn't God, Himself, who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of Adam's defiance, that we shall inherit corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin - then who was it?

Adam?
Satan?
Someone else?

Being that it's not anything natural, it has to have been the conscious and purposeful choice of someone

Who??

 

[SteveB]

Minus Jesus Christ, every human being since Adam is born with a corrupt nature that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to live a righteous life of total sinlessness

If you could live a totally sinless life, you'd be in perfect communion with YHVH.

According to Christian teaching, the corrupt nature that inevitably compels our sin is inherited from Adam

Pity you never actually ask where we get this from.

However, an inability to refrain from defying God {i.e. sin}, at least once in a lifetime, is NOT a naturally inheritable trait!

They way you're describing this is not very clearly stated.
Try to not use so many negatives.

Hair color, for example, is an inheritable trait

Yep.

Taking the name of the Lord in vain, for example, is NOT an inheritable trait!

Nope. That's a choice.

Clearly, that each of us are born with corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin had to have been by the free will choice of a moral agent

Yeah... it's not about compelling people to sin.
It's more accurate to say that it opens the door and makes it easier to sin.

It's about being separated from God.

If it wasn't God, Himself, who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of Adam's defiance, that we shall inherit corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin - then who was it?

God gave Adam and Eve the gift of passing their DNA along to their children, and then through each succeeding generation down through today's children. And they will pass their DNA along through to their children, grandchildren, etc....

Something about our nature is passed down through the human race that resulted in our being born separated from God.

God resolved this issue by giving us his son Jesus, to pay the penalty for not only the sin of Adam, but the sin of everyone else throughout history.

The only sin that will not be forgiven is the sin of not believing Jesus.
As stated in John 16:7-11.

Joh 16:7-11 WEB 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I don’t go away, the Counselor won’t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; 9 about sin, because they don’t believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to my Father, and you won’t see me any more; 11 about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged.

Adam?
Satan?
Someone else?

You're responsible for your own sin Tree.

Being that it's not anything natural, it has to have been the conscious and purposeful choice of someone

How do you know that it's not natural?
Did you conduct scientific research on this and come to a scientific discovery?
Everything that God created in the cosmos is natural.
According to Genesis 2:7, he created Adam a living soul.
That's inherent in the human being.
His living soul died when he ate the fruit. It's all described in Genesis 2 and 3.

It's pretty clear that you have some ideas that you're concocting which are not biblical.

Who??

Nobody but you is responsible for your sin.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

If it wasn't God, Himself, who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of Adam's defiance, that we shall inherit corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin - then who was it?

No one "decided" that I would sin. When I do sin I sin because I MYSELF decide to sin.

Adam?
Satan?
Someone else?

ME!

Being that it's not anything natural, it has to have been the conscious and purposeful choice of someone

Who??

ME!

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Minus Jesus Christ, every human being since Adam is born with a corrupt nature that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to live a righteous life of total sinlessness

According to Christian teaching, the corrupt nature that inevitably compels our sin is inherited from Adam
However, an inability to refrain from defying God {i.e. sin}, at least once in a lifetime, is NOT a naturally inheritable trait!

Hair color, for example, is an inheritable trait
Taking the name of the Lord in vain, for example, is NOT an inheritable trait!

Clearly, that each of us are born with corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin had to have been by the free will choice of a moral agent

If it wasn't God, Himself, who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of Adam's defiance, that we shall inherit corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin - then who was it?

Consider a career criminal. Consider him asking this:

"If it wasn't God Himself who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of my mother leaving father and my father instructing me on how to rob banks, that I should be a career criminal, then whose decision was it?"

Answer: No one DECIDED it. It's a consequence,

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Let's take a closer look at what you are saying:

? - How our arborist gets to a truth by way of self contradictory circular untruths; Pass the Dramamine, please

His words: "If it wasn't God, Himself, who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of Adam's defiance, that we shall inherit corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin - then who was it?" Since sin is acting in defiance of God's will, let's examine the logic of his quote above...

forums.carm.org

 

[Baltic]

Minus Jesus Christ, every human being since Adam is born with a corrupt nature that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to live a righteous life of total sinlessness

According to Christian teaching, the corrupt nature that inevitably compels our sin is inherited from Adam
However, an inability to refrain from defying God {i.e. sin}, at least once in a lifetime, is NOT a naturally inheritable trait!

Hair color, for example, is an inheritable trait
Taking the name of the Lord in vain, for example, is NOT an inheritable trait!

Clearly, that each of us are born with corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin had to have been by the free will choice of a moral agent

If it wasn't God, Himself, who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of Adam's defiance, that we shall inherit corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin - then who was it?

Adam?
Satan?
Someone else?

Being that it's not anything natural, it has to have been the conscious and purposeful choice of someone

Who??

Given example corrupt nature is fixable by humanity via free will and Christ in human directing.

 

[Eightcrackers]

Minus Jesus Christ, every human being since Adam is born with a corrupt nature that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to live a righteous life of total sinlessness

According to Christian teaching, the corrupt nature that inevitably compels our sin is inherited from Adam
However, an inability to refrain from defying God {i.e. sin}, at least once in a lifetime, is NOT a naturally inheritable trait!

Hair color, for example, is an inheritable trait
Taking the name of the Lord in vain, for example, is NOT an inheritable trait!

Clearly, that each of us are born with corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin had to have been by the free will choice of a moral agent

If it wasn't God, Himself, who consciously and purposefully decided, as a consequence of Adam's defiance, that we shall inherit corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin - then who was it?

Adam?
Satan?
Someone else?

Being that it's not anything natural, it has to have been the conscious and purposeful choice of someone

Who??

More directly,

"Who made it so that we would - indeed, could - inherit sin nature?"

 

[stiggy wiggy]

More directly,

"Who made it so that we would - indeed, could - inherit sin nature?

I would imagine your answer as to who made it so that we would inherit blue eyes if both our parents had blue eyes is the same as the answer to the question you just posed; NO ONE!

 

[SteveB]

I want to develop a point further.

Clearly, that each of us are born with corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin had to have been by the free will choice of a moral agent

Yeah... it's not about compelling people to sin.
It's more accurate to say that it opens the door and makes it easier to sin.

It's about being separated from God.

I'm going to modify this a little.
We're not compelled to sin because of this. It opens the door, by separating us from God, making it possible for us to sin.
Remember, according to Genesis 2:17, there was only one commandment that Adam was given.... do not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
So, that was the only way to open the door to sin. If that fruit had never been eaten, we would still be in right relationship with God.
None of the other evils we see in this world and lives would have been taking place, because we would still be in harmony, and communion with God. Our relationship would be intact with him, making sin/separation a non-issue.

So, the only thing that Adam's sin of eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil accomplished is separating us from God, opening the door to our being able, and then being desirous of sin.

It's that separation which opens the door to doing what pleases us. Your slander, blasphemy, outrage against him, all those sins that you take delight in, and are in opposition to YHVH..... those are ALL you!
Just exactly like all my sins that I commit, and take delight in.... they're all me! Same with each and every single human being throughout history.

This is exactly why Jesus came. To save us from our sin, our sin nature, to cleanse us from our sin, and recreate in us, a new heart of flesh, and a new spirit, to remove the old stony heart of flesh and give us a new heart of flesh. And to seal/ensure that it sticks, he gives us his Holy Spirit to cause us to live after his commands. As we read in Ezekiel 36, and then in Romans 8:3-8, and Galatians 5:16-25.

The difference between then and now, we have a battle over our lives.

Kind of like the saying about the two dogs, and depending on which one we feed will have dominance over us.

Jesus restored the relationship between us and God, so we have the strength and power to live in a godly and righteous manner.

 

[Baltic]

"1st, an error of the understanding (cf. Ackermann, Das Christl. im Plato, p. 59 Anm. 3 (English translation (S. R. Asbury, 1861), p. 57 n. 99)). 2nd, a bad action, evil deed."
From Strong's
So, sin is ignorance of how to do things right, before it become "bad action".

 

[treeplanter]

Something about our nature is passed down through the human race that resulted in our being born separated from God.

That, "something", is called sin, Steve

Sin is what separates us from God

Sin, though, is a behavior - i.e. an action - and behaviors/actions are NOT naturally inheritable!

The unique biological/physiological chemistry that each of us are born with may predispose us towards certain actions, but nobody is born without the choice to decide for ourselves whether or not to undertake said action{s}

Like you have acknowledged:

Hair color is an inheritable trait

And sin is not an inheritable trait
It's an action - one that we may choose


Being that we are, nonetheless, born "separated from God" - this circumvention of natural biology must have been a conscious and purposeful decision

And if it wasn't God who decided to bypass the law of natural inheritance, who was it?

 

[Furion]

Clearly, that each of us are born with corrupt natures that inevitably compel sin had to have been by the free will choice of a moral agent

Which specific sin was I born with again?

I've always wondered about it but never found anyone to blame

 

[stiggy wiggy]

And if it wasn't God who decided to bypass the law of natural inheritance, who was it?

No one. What makes you think someone's decision was involved? Who decided that a decision was involved?

 

[treeplanter]

What makes you think someone's decision was involved?

Because being born "separated from God" is NOT a naturally inheritable condition

There are two things at play here, stigs:

1. We are, according to scripture, condemned from birth
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me"

and

2. We are, according to scripture, incapable of living sinlessly
“There is no one righteous, not even one"


I know you want to deny God's word because it's stated in the OT rather than the NT, but you don't get to do that
Not when Jesus fully endorses YHVH
{and, not to mention, IS also, Himself, YHVH}

And I know you want me to believe that of the 100+ billion human beings to have walked the earth, not a single one ever has or ever will choose sinlessness with the exception of a lone man who also happens to be God, incarnate

Sorry, but the idea you're pushing - the idea that the human race CAN live sinlessly, but consistently CHOOSES NOT TO stretches credulity well past it's breaking point

 

[treeplanter]

Which specific sin was I born with again?

Take it up with God, not me

 

[Baltic]

Which specific sin was I born with again?

I've always wondered about it but never found anyone to blame

Envy

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Because being born "separated from God" is NOT a naturally inheritable condition

So why did you make up the fact that we are born separated from God? You have no scripture to back that up with. You don't even try. Meanwhile we DO have this from the OT, which YOU say "counts:"

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5.

AND

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. Psalms 139

Oh, you want something from the NT:

But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased .......Gal 1:15

OK, I provided scripture to refute your nonsense. What do YOU offer to support it?

There are two things at play here, stigs:

1. We are, according to scripture, condemned from birth

SCRIPTURE? You've got nothing.

and

2. We are, according to scripture, incapable of living sinlessl

Yeah? Who is disputing that?

I know you want to deny God's word

I QUOTED IT!!! Funny way of denying it, wouldn't you say?

And I know you want me to believe that of the 100+ billion human beings to have walked the earth, not a single one ever has or ever will choose sinlessness with the exception of a lone man who also happens to be God, incarnate

"Choose sinlessness?" What does that even mean? I"m trying to wrap my brain around the comical notion of some three year old kid thinking to himself, 'Hmmmm, I think I'll choose sinlessness." LOL

Sorry, but the idea you're pushing - the idea that the human race CAN live sinlessly,

Where did I even suggest, much less "push" such an idiotic idea? That stupid idea came from your head and your head only. I find it weird that you would intentionally concoct such an obviously easily refutable and therefore humiliating crock of nonsense as we see here with your OP.

 

[treeplanter]

So why did you make up the fact that we are born separated from God? You have no scripture to back that up with.

One step at a time, stigs

One step at a time...



New International Version
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

New Living Translation
For I was born a sinner— yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

English Standard Version
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Berean Study Bible
Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.

King James Bible
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

New King James Version
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

New American Standard Bible
Behold, I was brought forth in guilt, And in sin my mother conceived me.

NASB 1995
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

NASB 1977
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

Amplified Bible
I was brought forth in [a state of] wickedness; In sin my mother conceived me [and from my beginning I, too, was sinful].

Christian Standard Bible
Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.

American Standard Version
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because in evil I was formed in the womb and in sin my mother conceived me.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
For, behold, I was conceived in iniquities, and in sins did my mother conceive me.

Contemporary English Version
I have sinned and done wrong since the day I was born.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me.

Good News Translation
I have been evil from the day I was born; from the time I was conceived, I have been sinful.

International Standard Version
Indeed, in iniquity I was brought forth; in sin my mother conceived me.

JPS Tanakh 1917
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin did my mother conceive me.

Literal Standard Version
Behold, I have been brought forth in iniquity, And my mother conceives me in sin.

New American Bible
Behold, I was born in guilt, in sin my mother conceived me.

NET Bible
Look, I was guilty of sin from birth, a sinner the moment my mother conceived me.

New Revised Standard Version
Indeed, I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me.

New Heart English Bible
Look, I was brought forth in iniquity. In sin my mother conceived me.

World English Bible
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity. In sin my mother conceived me.

Young's Literal Translation
Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me.


SINFUL AT BIRTH
BORN A SINNER
GUILTY WHEN I WAS BORN
I HAVE BEEN EVIL FROM THE DAY I WAS BORN



Yep, just like I said - born separated from God!!!

 

[treeplanter]

Man, you sure went to a lot of trouble for nothing. Twenty-five translations of a psalmist. Why not also quote the psalmist who desired babies to be dashed upon the rocks, if you're stupid enough to think Christian doctrine can be derived from the cries of an anonymous psalmist? Why not quote Psalms 22 and claim that as proof that God forsakes us? Besides, I already quoted another psalm in which a different psalmist refutes the psalmist you quoted. And of course you ignored it as usual. You no longer even attempt to address what I type, you just cowardly ignore. You want Christian doctrine? Quote a Christian like I did with Paul. Or at least a prophet like I did with Jeremiah.

You screwed up as usual. Because you now regret ever having concocted such an unfortunate thread, you now have to hide your embarrassment by flooding the place with 25 different translations of what a despairing psalmist said, feeling guilty about his sin. What next? Are you going to quote Ecclesiastes as "proof" that Christian doctrine teaches that "all is vanity?"

Now go ahead and as usual ignore every point I just made.

Hilarious!!!

The OT is the word of a psalmist, not God

 

[stiggy wiggy]

The OT is the word of a psalmist, not God

Amen! Only a fool would think God wants us to dash babies to death on rocks. We seem to agree on that.

It's encouraging to see your progress (albeit at a snail's pace) in understanding and belief in scripture. Your slow journey from theism to Christianity is noteworthy, but you need to dump that blasphemous bravado. Fortunately God can see through it and recognize it as a weak petulant child trying to act tough, but it impedes your progress.