Acts 8:37 claimed support

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fltom

Well-known member
Chapter XII
eunuch himself: and, immediately requesting to be baptized, he said, “I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.”3 This man was also sent into the regions of Ethiopia, to preach what he…
Ante-Nicene Fathers 1: The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, Iren., Adv. Haer. 3.12.8, p 433 (1 time)

Testimonies
believes can immediately obtain (i.e., pardon and peace). In the Acts of the Apostles: “Lo, here is water; what is there which hinders me from being baptized? Then said Philip, If thou believest…
Ante-Nicene Fathers 5: Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Novatian, Appendix, Cyp., Ad Quirinium 3.43, p 545 (1 time)'

according to an article

Irenaeus (180 AD): [Philip declared] that this was Jesus, and that the Scripture was fulfilled in Him; as did also the believing eunuch himself: and, immediately requesting to be baptized, he said, “I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.” Cyprian (250 AD): In the Acts of the Apostles: “Lo, here is water; what is there which hinders me from being baptized? Then said Philip, If you believe with all your heart, you may.”

these have a date of 180 and 250 A.D.

Bible Gem 1505 - The Textual Evidence for Acts 8:37 - Berean Insights

Phillip with the Ethiopian and that italicised verse (Acts 8:37) As they rode along, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look! There’s some water! Why can’t I be baptized?” [“You can,” Philip answered, “if you believe with all your heart.” And the …
www.bereaninsights.org www.bereaninsights.org
 
fltom said:
AChapter XII
eunuch himself: and, immediately requesting to be baptized, he said, “I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.”3 This man was also sent into the regions of Ethiopia, to preach what he…
Ante-Nicene Fathers 1: The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, Iren., Adv. Haer. 3.12.8, p 433 (1 time)

Testimonies
believes can immediately obtain (i.e., pardon and peace). In the Acts of the Apostles: “Lo, here is water; what is there which hinders me from being baptized? Then said Philip, If thou believest…
Ante-Nicene Fathers 5: Fathers of the Third Century: Hippolytus, Cyprian, Novatian, Appendix, Cyp., Ad Quirinium 3.43, p 545 (1 time)'

according to an article

Irenaeus (180 AD): [Philip declared] that this was Jesus, and that the Scripture was fulfilled in Him; as did also the believing eunuch himself: and, immediately requesting to be baptized, he said, “I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God.” Cyprian (250 AD): In the Acts of the Apostles: “Lo, here is water; what is there which hinders me from being baptized? Then said Philip, If you believe with all your heart, you may.”

these have a date of 180 and 250 A.D.

Bible Gem 1505 - The Textual Evidence for Acts 8:37 - Berean Insights

Phillip with the Ethiopian and that italicised verse (Acts 8:37) As they rode along, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look! There’s some water! Why can’t I be baptized?” [“You can,” Philip answered, “if you believe with all your heart.” And the …
www.bereaninsights.org www.bereaninsights.org
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Acts 8:37 "Then said Philip, If you believe with all your heart, you may etc" seems to be spurious as not in early manuscripts. It doesn't appear in many English translations.
 
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cjab said:
Acts 8:37 "Then said Philip, If you believe with all your heart, you may etc" seems to be spurious as not in early manuscripts. It doesn't appear in many English translations.
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It appears in the writings of Irenaeus circa 180

that is as early as any manuscript
 
fltom said:
It appears in the writings of Irenaeus circa 180

that is as early as any manuscript
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Unfortunately no Greek texts for Irenaeus, and Latin only goes back to a translation in 380AD.
[source]

Irenaeus clearly doesn't reflect the earliest Greek manuscripts in the Latin. Latin is not Greek, and cannot often trump Greek manuscripts, unless a really ancient translation.
 
cjab said:
Unfortunately no Greek texts for Irenaeus, and Latin only goes back to a translation in 380AD.
[source]

Irenaeus clearly doesn't reflect the earliest Greek manuscripts in the Latin. Latin is not Greek, and cannot often trump Greek manuscripts, unless a really ancient translation.
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Seems to me you are assuming the latin is not an accurate rendering of Irenaeus Greek texts

and there is also cyprian 250 A.D. also very early evidence
 
fltom said:
You keep wanting to ignore the fact the text is included in some manuscripts
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No, I'm not ignoring that at all.
When it's absent earlier manuscripts, and inserted only in later manuscripts, that is evidence that it is not original.

Do you believe the Comma to be original, since it is "included in some manuscripts", namely those from the 16th century?
 
Theo1689 said:
No, I'm not ignoring that at all.
When it's absent earlier manuscripts, and inserted only in later manuscripts, that is evidence that it is not original.

Do you believe the Comma to be original, since it is "included in some manuscripts", namely those from the 16th century?
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You're too rational. ?
 
Theo1689 said:
Tom and SbtL have one thing in common... They both base the validity of their arguments on whether it supports their position or not.

? before ?
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The lattwr is KJV onlyist, the former, an inconsistent Arminian who rejects open theism.
 
Theo1689 said:
No, I'm not ignoring that at all.
When it's absent earlier manuscripts, and inserted only in later manuscripts, that is evidence that it is not original.

Do you believe the Comma to be original, since it is "included in some manuscripts", namely those from the 16th century?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. There could have been other manuscripts even earlier than those that left it out but they were lost

Irenaeus and Cyprian had to get their quote from some place

PS the 16th century is not the 6th

The verse is found in a sixth century manuscript

and the verse was referenced in 180 and 250 a.d.
 
fltom said:
Not necessarily. There could have been other manuscripts even earlier than those that left it out but they were lost

Irenaeus and Cyprian had to get their quote from some place

PS the 16th century is not the 6th

The verse is found in a sixth century manuscript

and the verse was referenced in 180 and 250 a.d.
Click to expand...
"could have been" LOL
 
fltom said:
Seems to me you are assuming the latin is not an accurate rendering of Irenaeus Greek texts
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As Hort, in "Two dissertations" says, "The Greek original being
lost, the text may be due either to Irenseus or to his translator,
who frequently transcribes an Old Latin version of the New
Testament when he comes to a quotation, even in cases where
the extant Greek shews that Irenseus had other readings."

You need to know that Latin translations don't always reflect the earliest Greek manuscripts, and that the Latin Church Fathers always quote from the Latin scriptures rather than the Greek. I think Tertullian is one of the few who was also skilled in Greek.

fltom said:
and there is also cyprian 250 A.D. also very early evidence
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Because of the matter of the letters of Ignatius, many of which were outright fabrications in Latin; and of Irenaeus, and the Latin versus the early Greek of "monogenes theos" in John 1:18, which appears in the Old Latin Irenaeus inconsistently, sometimes as Unigenitus Deus and sometimes as Unigenitus Filius Dei, we can't be sure whether later copyists & translators changed scripture quotations to suit themselves.

Another point is that Old Latin scriptures were unregulated, as translated by many persons. Even Augustine alluded to this problem. Hence the provenance of Old Latin scriptures used by the Fathers could never be taken for granted.
 
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