At what time was Adam's guilt imputed to all mankind?

My argument was that all children go to heaven.

And I continue to reject it as unBiblical.
The Bible doesn't tell us that all children go to heaven, any more than it tells me that all my neighbours are going to heaven.

This includes aborted babies, miscarriages, and young one's who can't even sit up without help. They can't talk, they can't take care of themselves.

Where does the Bible teach that these criteria are relevant to salvation?

These who are incapable of doing anything for themselves, it's either all to heaven, or all to hell.

That's like saying, "either all sinners go to heaven, or all sinners go to hell", and it's just as unBiblical. You refuse to allow God to choose what He does with His creation.

Either God makes provision for them to go to heaven, and however that works, or they remain in the default state of hell bound.

Or God has mercy on whom He has mercy, and He hardens whom He will.

Once again, I keep in mind what God had Samuel write from David "22 And he said, “While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who can tell whether [a]the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ 23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”"

Where does that say, "I shall go to all babies"?
Do you know you can't rationalize that way?
That's like saying, the Bible teaches that one sinner is saved, therefore all sinners must be saved.

I use the definition from Deuteronomy 1:39 that they don't know the difference between good and evil.

But that's a SPECIFIC context that doesn't apply today. How many babies have seen the miracles God did in Egypt?

They don't know anything yet.

God says He wrote His law on their hearts.

Why would Jesus only be upset for these defenseless children, and not everyone else?

Where does the Bible say Jesus is not upset for anyone else?

I see it as this group of children, the curious, the ones learning about the world, as being the ones forbidden to come to Jesus. The "innocent" (that word is not being used in place of sinless.) The Kingdom of God is made of such as these. The innocent.

So it's not even that their sins are forgiven, but that they don't have sin at all, they are "innocent"? Do you know what Pelagianism is?

They don't understand evil,

God says you're wrong.
And my experience says you're wrong.
 
Yes, death in the form of lost access to the tree of life, eating of which keeps one alive forever, according to scripture.
What or who is the tree of life? I see that it is Jesus.

John 6
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
 
And I continue to reject it as unBiblical.
The Bible doesn't tell us that all children go to heaven, any more than it tells me that all my neighbours are going to heaven.



Where does the Bible teach that these criteria are relevant to salvation?



That's like saying, "either all sinners go to heaven, or all sinners go to hell", and it's just as unBiblical. You refuse to allow God to choose what He does with His creation.



Or God has mercy on whom He has mercy, and He hardens whom He will.



Where does that say, "I shall go to all babies"?
Do you know you can't rationalize that way?
That's like saying, the Bible teaches that one sinner is saved, therefore all sinners must be saved.



But that's a SPECIFIC context that doesn't apply today. How many babies have seen the miracles God did in Egypt?



God says He wrote His law on their hearts.



Where does the Bible say Jesus is not upset for anyone else?



So it's not even that their sins are forgiven, but that they don't have sin at all, they are "innocent"? Do you know what Pelagianism is?



God says you're wrong.
And my experience says you're wrong.
So we are left with you saying all children go to hell. Got it. You responded EXACTLY as I thought you would. You weren't fooling anyone.
 
So we are left with you saying all children go to hell.

Wrong again.
Infants who are elect will go to heaven.
Infants who are not elect will go to hell.

Why must you constantly MISREPRESENT me?
Bearing false witness is a sin.

Got it. You responded EXACTLY as I thought you would. You weren't fooling anyone.

I doubt you even READ my post, since I've NEVER claimed "all children go to hell".
 
What or who is the tree of life? I see that it is Jesus.

John 6
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
I don’t agree, but I can see why you would say that.
 
It also belongs to adults.
I take it that is found here? "“Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. “Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3–4).
I wasn't aware that we got this from the BIBLE.
Chapter and verse for "drivers license", please?
49 USC chapter 43. (I too can be facetious)
And we see that the anti-Calvinists are masters at ripping Scriptures out of context. This passage is NOT about, "young people don't have the capacity to understand good and evil. Read the actual CONTEXT:
That context would be scripture right? The passage in Numbers was retold in Deuteronomy 1, so it is part of the context of scripture, which you are so ready to deny.
Num. 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

The adults were prevented from entering because they saw God's miracles in Egypt and the wilderness, and yet still do not have faith that God would be with them. The chidlren were too young to see the miracles, so they were excluded. Today's infants, and children (and teenagers?) aren't in that context, so this passage is completely IRRELEVANT to them.
And there you have it. Denial of sola scriptura. It does not actually speak to the children here, but later on in the chapter, and in the recounting of this event in Deuteronomy 1:34-40 shown below. Where did you get the idea that the children were excluded because they were too young to see the miracles? It isn't here. It isn't in the whole chapter (I read it, and actually pasted it below as well.)
Numbers 14 "14 Then all the congregation [a]raised their voices and cried out, and the people wept [b]that night. 2 And all the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron; and the entire congregation said to them, “If only we had died in the land of Egypt! Or even if we had died in this wilderness! 3 So why is the Lord bringing us into this land to fall by the sword? Our wives and our little ones will become plunder! Would it not be better for us to return to Egypt?” 4 So they said to one another, “Let’s appoint a leader and return to Egypt!”"

Here is the start of the context, which is actually mentioned in Deuteronomy 1:39. (No surprise there. Context of scripture.) Also the above bold is mentioned in Deuteronomy 1:39, as well as sons, who in Numbers are the shepherds toiling in the wilderness.

"30 By no means will you come into the land where I [q]swore to settle you, except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31 Your children, however, whom you said would become plunder—I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32 But as for you, your dead bodies will fall in this wilderness. 33 Also, your sons will be shepherds in the wilderness for forty years, and they will [r]suffer for your unfaithfulness, until your bodies perish in the wilderness. 34 In accordance with the number of days that you spied out the land, forty days, for every day you shall suffer the punishment for your [s]guilt a year, that is, forty years, and you will know My opposition. 35 I, the Lord, have spoken, I certainly will do this to all this evil congregation who are gathered together against Me. They shall be worn out in this wilderness, and there they shall die.’”

Deuteronomy 1:39 does not say that the children were too young to see the miracles. It doesn't even say that in Numbers 14:31. What happened to sola scriptura? Why are we getting your interpretation? It is plain that Deuteronomy 1:39 is actually this point in time. So it is very much related to these verses, unless you are saying they have to be isolated, and context ignored.

Deuteronomy 1
"34 “Then the Lord heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and swore an oath, saying, 35 ‘Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him I will give the land on which he has set foot, and to his sons, because he has followed the Lord fully.’ 37 The Lord was angry with me also on your account, saying, ‘Not even you shall enter there. 38 Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, shall himself enter there; encourage him, for he will give it to Israel as an inheritance. 39 Moreover, your little ones who, you said, would become plunder, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good and evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall take possession of it. 40 But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way of the [p]Red Sea.’"

Verse 39 looks different when given context, doesn't it? It is a recounting of the verses here in Numbers. God was more clear here to say the reason why the sons would enter. "who this day have no knowledge of good and evil". What day? If we go back to Numbers, God made this pronouncement on the day of Israel's rejection. This day the children have no knowledge of good and evil.

Numbers 14:29 "29 your dead bodies will fall in this wilderness, all your [a]numbered men according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me."
Further, the "census of 20 years old and upward" is NOT about "age of accountability, it's about age to go into BATTLE
Given the context of Numbers and Deuteronomy, I must consider that the sons mentioned in Numbers are the same as the sons mentioned in Deuteronomy, so those sons must be those 19 years and under. (Due to the groups mentioned in Numbers. You have Caleb, Joshua, those over 20, those under 20, and the "little ones". Since the "little ones" are barely crawling, I doubt that they are busy being shepherds, which leaves just those 19 and under.
And there it is!
A denial of sola Scriptura!
Really? Hmm... having read the comment this came from...I'll have to get back to you on that. Of course, when you treat sentences in someone's comment in isolation, like scripture, you can make it say whatever you want.
How insulting of you.
You know you're not God, right?
Really? You are hurt by a simple opinion? I grew up on sticks and stones, personally...
Why?
Why would God care about age?
I don't know. Can you tell us why He mentioned a specific age, and then clearly stated that they didn't know the difference between good and evil? It didn't take 20 years to get to where they were. So, why wouldn't God kill everyone who had seen Egypt and the miracles, if that is what you say is the factor God used in making His pronouncement? (The preceding should not be considered support for an age of accountability, it is not.)
Are you next going to say that all brown-eyed people will go to heaven?
Are you going to continue ridiculing people?
"People should know better than to think God wouldn't have all brown-eyed peiople go to heaven".
This is how ridiculous you sound.
You are the one who said it. Wouldn't that be like saying all brown-eyed sinners go to hell?
Let's simply pick random attributes of humanity and claim all individuals in that group will end up in heaven, and God would "sigh" about people who could never agree with it.
Is everything about ridiculing your opponent into submission? He wasn't even addressing this to you, and here you are ridiculing him.
Why is it "just" to send all sinners younger than 20-something to heaven?
Ask God.
You are denying God's GRACE!
How, if God is the one who chooses who goes to heaven? (That is biblical.) I mean, logically if they are there then... God.
If anyone under 20, or over 20, gets to heaven, it is due to God's GRACE and God's grace ALONE. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with "justice".
You are denying God's grace!
No, he's just saying that God applied it to all those people under 20, or are you denying what scripture says? He even gave the reason in Deuteronomy 1:39.
 
Wrong again.
Infants who are elect will go to heaven.
Infants who are not elect will go to hell.
Where does the scripture teach that? Chapter and verse, please...
I will appreciate the text that says it, as you pointed out to me...


Actually, the text does NOT say, "all men". It simply says, "all".

Acts 17:31 because he has fixed ma day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Acts 17:31 καθότι ἔστησεν ἡμέραν ἐν ᾗ μέλλει κρίνειν τὴν οἰκουμένην ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ, ἐν ἀνδρὶ8 ᾧ ὥρισεν, πίστιν παρασχὼν πᾶσιν ἀναστήσας αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν.

The word, "men" ("anthropois") is absent from the text.
 
So how do you account for Jesus BEING TEMPTED IN EVERY RESPECT AS WE ARE, if James 1 doesn't apply to him???
Sorry but YOU need to ELABORATE on what YOU mean HERE and EXPLAIN James 1 WHEN YOU DO as to HOW YOU think I IMPLIED it doesn't APPLY TO HIM. I HOPE my CAPSLOCK HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND my RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The above is on par with how you respond to others. MAYBE you will wake UP.
 
At what point in time were all of mankind made sinners?

A. When Adam sinned
B. When a person is conceived
C. When a person is born
D. When a person sins
E. Other(please explain)

Romans 5
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I believe that when Adam sinned all of mankind was made sinners, condemned under the law.

I believe that when the Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood on Calvary, many(not all) were made righteous.

I believe the sin of God's people were imputed to Christ on the cross.

Triple imputation.
It was imputed to all of creation (Romans 8:20; Romans 5:12-21&c) including man at the moment lust and sin was conceived in his heart. I believe as R C Sproul does, that "Adam had fallen before he fell!"

It is of note that many anti-Cals would give creedence to the fact that his sin cursed the Earth and creation (which is awaiting being set free from its bondage to corruption) but that man himself is uneffected until he personally sins, denying that all are guilty and condemned (John 3:17-20) in Adam by his transgression.

Gots to be protecting that little god "free will" you know.
 
It was imputed to all of creation (Romans 8:20; Romans 5:12-21&c) including man at the moment lust and sin was conceived in his heart. I believe as R C Sproul does, that "Adam had fallen before he fell!"

It is of note that many anti-Cals would give creedence to the fact that his sin cursed the Earth and creation (which is awaiting being set free from its bondage to corruption) but that man himself is uneffected until he personally sins, denying that all are guilty and condemned (John 3:17-20) in Adam by his transgression.

Gots to be protecting that little god "free will" you know.

Welcome to Zombie land. :)
 
I take it that is found here? "“Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. “Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 18:3–4).

49 USC chapter 43. (I too can be facetious)

That context would be scripture right? The passage in Numbers was retold in Deuteronomy 1, so it is part of the context of scripture, which you are so ready to deny.

And there you have it. Denial of sola scriptura. It does not actually speak to the children here, but later on in the chapter, and in the recounting of this event in Deuteronomy 1:34-40 shown below. Where did you get the idea that the children were excluded because they were too young to see the miracles? It isn't here. It isn't in the whole chapter (I read it, and actually pasted it below as well.)
Numbers 14 "14 Then all the congregation [a]raised their voices and cried out, and the people wept [b]that night. 2 And all the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron; and the entire congregation said to them, “If only we had died in the land of Egypt! Or even if we had died in this wilderness! 3 So why is the Lord bringing us into this land to fall by the sword? Our wives and our little ones will become plunder! Would it not be better for us to return to Egypt?” 4 So they said to one another, “Let’s appoint a leader and return to Egypt!”"

Here is the start of the context, which is actually mentioned in Deuteronomy 1:39. (No surprise there. Context of scripture.) Also the above bold is mentioned in Deuteronomy 1:39, as well as sons, who in Numbers are the shepherds toiling in the wilderness.

"30 By no means will you come into the land where I [q]swore to settle you, except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31 Your children, however, whom you said would become plunder—I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32 But as for you, your dead bodies will fall in this wilderness. 33 Also, your sons will be shepherds in the wilderness for forty years, and they will [r]suffer for your unfaithfulness, until your bodies perish in the wilderness. 34 In accordance with the number of days that you spied out the land, forty days, for every day you shall suffer the punishment for your [s]guilt a year, that is, forty years, and you will know My opposition. 35 I, the Lord, have spoken, I certainly will do this to all this evil congregation who are gathered together against Me. They shall be worn out in this wilderness, and there they shall die.’”

Deuteronomy 1:39 does not say that the children were too young to see the miracles. It doesn't even say that in Numbers 14:31. What happened to sola scriptura? Why are we getting your interpretation? It is plain that Deuteronomy 1:39 is actually this point in time. So it is very much related to these verses, unless you are saying they have to be isolated, and context ignored.

Deuteronomy 1
"34 “Then the Lord heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and swore an oath, saying, 35 ‘Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him I will give the land on which he has set foot, and to his sons, because he has followed the Lord fully.’ 37 The Lord was angry with me also on your account, saying, ‘Not even you shall enter there. 38 Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, shall himself enter there; encourage him, for he will give it to Israel as an inheritance. 39 Moreover, your little ones who, you said, would become plunder, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good and evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall take possession of it. 40 But as for you, turn around and set out for the wilderness by the way of the [p]Red Sea.’"

Verse 39 looks different when given context, doesn't it? It is a recounting of the verses here in Numbers. God was more clear here to say the reason why the sons would enter. "who this day have no knowledge of good and evil". What day? If we go back to Numbers, God made this pronouncement on the day of Israel's rejection. This day the children have no knowledge of good and evil.

Numbers 14:29 "29 your dead bodies will fall in this wilderness, all your [a]numbered men according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me."

Given the context of Numbers and Deuteronomy, I must consider that the sons mentioned in Numbers are the same as the sons mentioned in Deuteronomy, so those sons must be those 19 years and under. (Due to the groups mentioned in Numbers. You have Caleb, Joshua, those over 20, those under 20, and the "little ones". Since the "little ones" are barely crawling, I doubt that they are busy being shepherds, which leaves just those 19 and under.

Really? Hmm... having read the comment this came from...I'll have to get back to you on that. Of course, when you treat sentences in someone's comment in isolation, like scripture, you can make it say whatever you want.

Really? You are hurt by a simple opinion? I grew up on sticks and stones, personally...

I don't know. Can you tell us why He mentioned a specific age, and then clearly stated that they didn't know the difference between good and evil? It didn't take 20 years to get to where they were. So, why wouldn't God kill everyone who had seen Egypt and the miracles, if that is what you say is the factor God used in making His pronouncement? (The preceding should not be considered support for an age of accountability, it is not.)

Are you going to continue ridiculing people?

You are the one who said it. Wouldn't that be like saying all brown-eyed sinners go to hell?

Is everything about ridiculing your opponent into submission? He wasn't even addressing this to you, and here you are ridiculing him.

Ask God.

How, if God is the one who chooses who goes to heaven? (That is biblical.) I mean, logically if they are there then... God.

No, he's just saying that God applied it to all those people under 20, or are you denying what scripture says? He even gave the reason in Deuteronomy 1:39.
Excellent responses on this post Armylngst! Very good.
 
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