Atheisim is not real.

[Judges13:18]

Yes. They remind me in that regard of one of my favorite poems from the Rubaiyat:

And do you think that unto such as you A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew God gave a secret, and denied it me? Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too

No, the problem is you're not listening and understanding, not that the message has not come to you:

Romans 10:16-19
16But not all of them welcomed the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”h 17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

18But I ask, did they not hear? Indeed they did:

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,

their words to the ends of the world.”i

19I ask instead, did Israel not understand?

Christ rejecters have a hearing/understanding problem, not a problem of God not talking to them.

 

[Judges13:18]

So they just get to say they are special while they are still doing exactly what they believe is 'bad'?

We are 'special' in that God has been gracious and merciful to us, not that we are in and of ourselves somehow special. But you could be that too if you'd just recognize your need for forgiveness and transformation. You won't stop sinning altogether, but you will not live in sin as a matter of unrepentant lifestyle, as unbelievers do. And you will learn to walk in righteousness more and more all the rest of your life. Then you will go to be with God in the kingdom of righteousness when you die where there is no evil and you will in perfect righteousness.

I know, I know. You're not interested. God told us most people are not interested in that and prefer the lives they live now. We get it.

 

[5wize]

No, the problem is you're not listening and understanding, not that the message has not come to you:

Romans 10:16-19
16But not all of them welcomed the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”h 17Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

18But I ask, did they not hear? Indeed they did:

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,

their words to the ends of the world.”i

19I ask instead, did Israel not understand?

Christ rejecters have a hearing/understanding problem, not a problem of God not talking to them.

Not true.... very interested... but you don’t know enough about your bible to be teaching me what is important about it.

This is where you show great weakness in your hermeneutic.

First off. Paul is not Jesus, and Paul did not teach what Jesus taught. Paul taught his own gospel that was picked up by the Church in later centuries because the second coming did not materialize by the 2nd century, and the concept of Jesus as messiah, as it was understood from Isaiah through the synoptic gospels was not realized. The script had to be changed. New gospels written.

Now what did Jesus teach: Jesus taught that you didn’t even need to know him at all but if you you treated others well you are a part of his family and he, and god, will come and dwell with you.

John 14:21-23
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[Judges13:18]

Magic apples, curses by a petty god, blood sacrifices...

No magic apples. Adam's sin got him separated from God, not the fruit.

The curse of God is simply the absence of his blessing. No hocus pocus like in pagan beliefs.

And blood sacrifice is required to ransom life for life. For your life to be ransomed from death and the evil one to whom you are enslaved an equivalent life must be provided to replace yours. That's what Jesus' life is. If you want it. But as the Bible says most aren't interested. They are fine with their slavery to sin and death. We get it.

 

[positive atheist]

I clicked that link with a high degree of skepticism and maybe even cynicism, but I have to admit that the "10 keys to happier living" are actually spot on.

I know. The field of positive psychology or the psychology of happiness has been studied for years now by psychologists and neurologists and they know what makes people happy. They decided to start an organization to tell people what they learned. Their ideas work.

 

[Judges13:18]

Are there dragons? Sorcerers? Magic weapons?

No dragons, unless the Leviathan spoken about in scripture was some kind of dragon. Probably just a crocodile.

No sorcerers, except Simon the sorcerer, condemned for his desire to make merchandise of the Holy Spirit (if I remember the story correctly).

And no magic weapons. Just the whole armor of God in Ephesians 6 to stand in the day of evil.

 

[Judges13:18]

I know. The field of positive psychology or the psychology of happiness has been studied for years now by psychologists and neurologists and they know what makes people happy. They decided to start an organization to tell people what they learned. Their ideas work.

Happy sinners will be the most surprised people on the Day of Judgement.

 

[Judges13:18]

I know. The field of positive psychology or the psychology of happiness has been studied for years now by psychologists and neurologists and they know what makes people happy. They decided to start an organization to tell people what they learned. Their ideas work.

I'll just borrow this post to respond to your post. It says what I want to say about it:

If it brings you joy, go for it. But trying to lecture people about what you imagine their beliefs to be, while you sit there thinking you are living in a Grimms Fairy tale, is just sad.

 

[positive atheist]

No, I'm not giving up the forgiveness of sin and the life of the Holy Spirit that I have in Christ. I'm not even going to look at your video. Closed minded? No. I've been on your side of things. No thanks. You can have it. That is death and darkness and despair. It's all yours, baby. God saved me from that.

Wow. So you refer to an organization that is trying to spread happiness and cooperation worldwide as "death and darkness and despair."? I really feel sorry for you. You are extremely negative. All you see in the future is unhappiness. I doubt you have "been on my side of things". If you had been you would not be so full of anger and despair. I know, jesus is going to come and save you, blah, blah, blah, and you are very happy. You don't appear to be. When all of these fictional stories you have don't come true and there is no jesus, you will have spent the one life you had in despair. Is that what you want? It does not surprise me though, all religions feed on weak, unhappy, desperate people. People who feel no need to be saved are not looking for a savior.

Your lack of human empathy is incredible. If I actually believed this nonsense about heaven and hell, even if I thought I was going to heaven I would still feel terrible about a system where almost everyone is going to some type of eternal suffering. Thank goodness I reject that garbage.

No offense but if I knew you in real life I would avoid you. You are so pessimistic and fatalistic I feel like after this I have to call up a friend who I know has a positive outlook in life and talk about the good things going on in life and have some laughs.

I suggest you become an atheist and find your own happiness and purpose. It is the only kind that exists.

xtianity = happiness. a joke played on the world.

 

[positive atheist]

Happy sinners will be the most surprised people on the Day of Judgement.

Let's get right to the heart of it.

What are you so angry about? Where is this rage coming from?

I know it is from your family. You've made reference to that in the past. What did they do to you? Are you from a broken family? An abusive family? Did someone abandon you? Did someone love drugs or alcohol more than their own child?

You obviously blame them for where your life ended up before you were "saved". Where did your life end up before jesus saved you?

 

[5wize]

Happy sinners will be the most surprised people on the Day of Judgement.

Let's get right to the heart of it.

What are you so angry about? Where is this rage coming from?

I know it is from your family. You've made reference to that in the past. What did they do to you? Are you from a broken family? An abusive family? Did someone abandon you? Did someone love drugs or alcohol more than their own child?

You obviously blame them for where your life ended up before you were "saved". Where did your life end up before jesus saved you?

And the bigger question is why did the particular personal life choice of healing you took on, Judges, entail my and PA’s eternal damnation? It would make way more sense if the path you took to yourself damned only you for failing its tenets - we didn’t choose it. But since you became a Christian, now we have to deal with the fallout of that. An absolutely inane and sloppily splayed dogma. You jump in a vat of Christian funk and somehow we’re the ones that have to clean our faces off from the splatter.

 

[positive atheist]

And the bigger question is why did the particular personal life choice of healing you took on, Judges, entail my and PA’s eternal damnation? It would make way more sense if the path you took to yourself damned only you for failing its tenets - we didn’t choose it. But since you became a Christian, now we have to deal with the fallout of that.

That is a good question. Why should it be like that? What does the xtian get out of it?

He is obviously projecting a huge amount of anger on to me and to a lesser extent you.

You are going to hell for being a christ rejecter with a hearing problem. As if that were a justifiable reason. He seemed quite gleeful (although he'll deny it) that I am going to be "surprised" on the "day of judgement" when I go to hell for being a happy person who advocated cooperation, compassion, and happiness. Do you see why it is obvious he is projecting? This is obviously not about me or you. What did I say that triggered him? Was it that I said he could live a happy life now without god and on some level he knows that is true?

You said

Jesus taught that you didn’t even need to know him at all but if you you treated others well you are a part of his family and he, and god, will come and dwell with you.

whoever he is angry at it is as if you are letting them off the hook. The thought must anger him. Deep down does he feel guilty about hating the people he hates? Does he blame himself?

It may not be his family of origin. Maybe his wife cheated on him and they had a bad divorce and the kids chose to stay with her. Maybe he is angry they are a happy family without him.

What do xtians get out of involving other people in their story? I think it allows them to have hatred for the damned while making it socially acceptable. He can gleefully look forward to my damnation while also claiming it is my fault and he doesn't want it to happen.

Judges, where did your life end up before jesus saved you?

 

[Judges13:18]

What are you so angry about? Where is this rage coming from?

I do not have anger and rage, lol.

I know it is from your family. You've made reference to that in the past. What did they do to you? Are you from a broken family? An abusive family? Did someone abandon you? Did someone love drugs or alcohol more than their own child?

No, you have me confused with someone else.

Where did your life end up before jesus saved you?

In the futility of trying to fulfill the corrupt desires of the flesh. What a horrible existence that is. Jesus saved me from it.

 

[Judges13:18]

Now what did Jesus teach: Jesus taught that you didn’t even need to know him at all...

This is funny.

 

[5wize]

This is funny.

Can you explain Jesus’ words here? Challenge yourself, or me, at least just a little.

 

[sobchak]

No magic apples.

Of course not. Magic apples, talking snakes, flaming swords dont exist. None are real, just elements of a made up stories.

Thankfully, humans are outgrowing this silly mythology like a child outgrowing the tooth fairy, santa claus, and pots of gold at the end of rainbows.

And blood sacrifice is required to ransom life for life.

What?!!? You are (presumably) a grown adult who believes in the "need" of blood sacrifice??? Seriously?

Thankfully, much of humanity is so far past this primitive thinking it is laughable. We can see into the fundamental make up of energy and matter, we can look billions of years in the past across immense distances and see the vast depth of the universe around us. And we have used the same tools to look and look and look for the tangible reality of any of your mythology and magic, and it shows no form in the real world, it is all just vapor and the words of deluded men like yourself.

But you be you as the world moves on. Be the robed cultist yelling at the rest of the productive world from the street corner, with a dagger in your hand, about the need for "blood sacrifice". Sit there in your self righteousness and judge others based on your twisted beliefs about their motivations.

I personally feel very sorry for you, but If this is what you need to feel content with your tiny, fragile, temporary place in this world, then go for it.

 

[Caroljeen]

Thankfully, much of humanity is so far past this primitive thinking it is laughable. We can see into the fundamental make up of energy and matter, we can look billions of years in the past across immense distances and see the vast depth of the universe around us.

It's amazing how much knowledge humans have acquired through scientific methods. Kudos.

And we have used the same tools to look and look and look for the tangible reality of any of your mythology and magic, and it shows no form in the real world, it is all just vapor and the words of deluded men like yourself.

Despite its successes, science's domain is limited to the natural world. It is unable to probe into the spiritual world which can only be grasped by the non-physical human soul/consciousness. You are missing the reality that matters the most...the knowledge and acquaintance of God.

 

[sobchak]

Despite its successes, science's domain is limited to the natural world. It is unable to probe into the spiritual world which can only be grasped by the non-physical human soul/consciousness.

Maybe. Or maybe all the mutually exclusive "grasping" of the spiritual world by individuals is not actually real, and instead it just an artifact of some peoples consciousness.

I lean towards the latter, based on what has been presented from those who claim spiritual, non physical experiences.

Could be wrong about it though.

You are missing the reality that matters the most...the knowledge and acquaintance of God.

Which God? Your Christian god? The Muslim god? Any of the hindu gods? How about the mormon god?

All believers come with the same fervor that they are right, and they truly believe they have found a connection to a god that is worthwhile. Just like you. Who should I believe here when it comes to spiritual experiences, if anyone?

 

[Judges13:18]

Can you explain Jesus’ words here? Challenge yourself, or me, at least just a little.

Sure. I think I know what you are asserting, so let's start here:

Jesus taught the necessity to come to him:

John 5:39-40
39You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, 40yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.

Jesus taught the necessity to believe in him:

John 8:23-24
23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

John 3:18
18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Jesus taught the necessity to be born again:

John 3:5-6
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’

So, no, it isn't just a matter of obeying the commandments even if you do not know him, or don't know about him. What Paul says about justification, salvation, and eternal life is what Jesus also says about those.

 

[Judges13:18]

Who should I believe here when it comes to spiritual experiences, if anyone?

The matter of the forgiveness of sin is the dividing line between the one and only real God and all the false gods of the world's religions. Only in Christianity is justification/salvation and eternal life granted as a free gift of God's grace apart from the merit of your good works.

All the false religions of the world slug it out over what rituals and deeds one must perform to work your way to being accepted by God. That's how you identify false religion. Any time a religion starts telling you what deeds and rituals you must perform to get right with him you know you are dealing with a false religion. Genuine Christianity stands alone in this regard. I say 'genuine' because, of course, there are false sects of Christianity which are works based.