Atheisim is not real.

[5wize]

If you believe you have been cursed to be 'bad' by a magic apple eaten by one of your ancestors, and that a kiss by your prince charming will dispel the curse and turn you into a better person, go for it. Be that good person you want to be.

You should realize though that others simply don't need wishful thinking and fairy tales of magic in order to strive to be good people just for the sake of being good people.

I appreciate the overall thrust of your post, but I just wanted to correct you on one thing as to be accurate as to what these guys think. They don’t think the kiss by Jesus makes them a better person. It just makes them saved from themselves while they try... but inevitably fail, to do so.

The argument against Judges thinking is that Jesus did not believe this. Paul made that crap of incorrigible sinner up to make sure that everybody he dealt with thought they were under the boot.

What Jesus taught was that he did not come for the righteous, but for the sinner, so he believed the righteous existed - Luke 5:31-32. This is borne out in Matt 25 as well where he creates 2 piles, sheep and goats, based on the treatment of others regardless of whether they even knew Jesus at all.

 

[Judges13:18]

Teach our kids to value life, themselves, and each other. Not some religious nonsense.

But that is religion. I mean, true religion.

 

[5wize]

But that is religion. I mean, true religion.

Your religion does not value life. It waits with gleeful anticipation for its final solution... it’s end.

 

[Judges13:18]

If you believe you have been cursed to be 'bad' by a magic apple eaten by one of your ancestors...

No, it wasn't the fruit. It was Adam's disobedience that resulted in him being turned over to disobedience and separation from God. God's law, 'do not eat', aroused sin in him, and because of his lack of righteousness, as symbolized by his nakedness, he could not resist it. Just as that happens for every human being born into the world. We are born blameless, but naked and exposed, not having the equipping of righteousness to resist sin. And so all are sinners, for all have sinned.

...and that a kiss by your prince charming will dispel the curse and turn you into a better person, go for it. Be that good person you want to be.

It's the forgiveness of sin and the giving of the Holy Spirit that dispels the curse. And Jesus did say most people will not want anything to do with that and, instead, will want to remain in their sin.

...You should realize though that others simply don't need wishful thinking and fairy tales of magic in order to strive to be good people just for the sake of being good people.

That's called self-righteousness. Mankind always tries to cover the nakedness of his unrighteousness with the work of his own hands, as symbolized by the leaves, to cover up the shame of that nakedness. That attempt to be righteous is futile. Christ died, shedding his blood so that he could cover you with his righteousness. This is represented by the animals sacrificed by God, their skins being used to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness.

 

[Judges13:18]

Your religion does not value life. It waits with gleeful anticipation for its final solution... it’s end.

That's like saying the police don't value life when they shoot a rapist and murderer who won't surrender and be restrained and who wants to continue on his murderous rampage. Even we insist that the cops do that, but when God does it it's evil for some reason.

 

[5wize]

That's like saying the police don't value life when they shoot a rapist and murderer who won't surrender and be restrained and who wants to continue on his murderous rampage. Even we insist that the cops do that, but when God does it it's evil for some reason.

That’s not the point being made. The point is that Christians, the true Christians - the Evangelicals, just like first century Christians, have stopped valuing this life in total, and instead await the end. You are apocalyptic, nihilistic and pessimistic.... about this life.

 

[positive atheist]

Have you been secretly reading the Bible?

No. I gave up reading it years ago when I realized I was completely wasting my time. Now instead I do things to better my life and the lives of others.

Worldly happiness and contentment provides a false sense of security that gives people confidence to reject the Gospel and boldly proclaim themselves to be atheists.

All religions are a crutch for the fearful and hopeless. That is why you insist the world is a terrible place despite the overwhelming evidence things are getting better as time goes on. If people are happy, content, fulfilled, the crutch is not needed. That is what you don't want. Religion loves weak people.

 

[positive atheist]

No, it's a main tenant of Christianity because you really are guilty.

I am happy to tell you I am not guilty. I am generally a nice person. When you say you are guilty can you give me some examples. Are you a serial killer? Rapist? Bank robber?

That's you. And that's me, too. Humans are by nature...well...not very nice.

Actually the evidence shows they are overall very nice. Maybe you need to find new friends and family. Most people I know are pretty decent.

I highlighted the ones that even the most stubborn of self-righteous atheists hardened in denial can't ignore.

Thank goodness you did that. I was mistakenly going to choose drunkeness, orgies, and impurity.

So, what's your excuse for being like this, and why is it okay to be like this?

Hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy are normal emotions. As long as it is not taken too far they are normal and not a problem. If I feel a little angry at someone I don't take a swing at them. If I feel a little jealous I don't start stealing. If a person has an actual problem with any of these things they need to see a therapist, not read a book that tells them they are a terrible person.

How has mankind been able to eradicate this stuff that flows so easily out of mankind and makes so much trouble in the world?

Common emotions don't cause that much trouble in the world. How did slavery end? Mostly people used reason and morality to recognize slavery was not good. How did the world start treating women better? They ignored religion and listened to women who started complaining, realized they were right, and now in many places in the world women are treated much better.

Just deciding it isn't sin and rejecting Christianity isn't the answer.

Actually it is. Xtianity offers no answers, it makes matters worst. Secular, well reasoned answers to the world's problems are far better than anything xtianity has ever produced.

 

[positive atheist]

Well, I already showed you it is in the Bible. Here's three other places where it talks about wealth deceitfully leading people away from "religious belief":

You don't have to have prophetic powers to understand that happy, content people don't need the crutch of religion. Your book is simply trying to stop you from noticing and wondering why happy, fulfilled people don't need the crutch you do. They obviously don't want you thinking about that.

 

[sobchak]

No, it wasn't the fruit. It was Adam's disobedience that resulted in him being turned over to disobedience and separation from God. God's law, 'do not eat', aroused sin in him, and because of his lack of righteousness, as symbolized by his nakedness, he could not resist it. Just as that happens for every human being born into the world. We are born blameless, but naked and exposed, not having the equipping of righteousness to resist sin. And so all are sinners, for all have sinned.


It's the forgiveness of sin and the giving of the Holy Spirit that dispels the curse. And Jesus did say most people will not want anything to do with that and, instead, will want to remain in their sin.


That's called self-righteousness. Mankind always tries to cover the nakedness of his unrighteousness with the work of his own hands, as symbolized by the leaves, to cover up the shame of that nakedness. That attempt to be righteous is futile. Christ died, shedding his blood so that he could cover you with his righteousness. This is represented by the animals sacrificed by God, their skins being used to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness.

I get that you really, really believe this. I do. And you are most certainly free to believe whatever you want.

But this just seems so silly. No nonsensical.

Magic apples, curses by a petty god, blood sacrifices...

Are there dragons? Sorcerers? Magic weapons?

It's like a not-so-good fantasy story. Just another myth made up by small human minds to try to make some semblance of sense out of the incredibly complex world we are thrust into.

If it brings you joy, go for it. But trying to lecture people about what you imagine their beliefs to be, while you sit there thinking you are living in a Grimms Fairy tale, is just sad.

 

[sobchak]

I appreciate the overall thrust of your post, but I just wanted to correct you on one thing as to be accurate as to what these guys think. They don’t think the kiss by Jesus makes them a better person. It just makes them saved from themselves while they try... but inevitably fail, to do so.

So they just get to say they are special while they are still doing exactly what they believe is 'bad'?

 

[5wize]

So they just get to say they are special while they are still doing exactly what they believe is 'bad'?

Yes. They remind me in that regard of one of my favorite poems from the Rubaiyat:

And do you think that unto such as you A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew God gave a secret, and denied it me? Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too

 

[positive atheist]

Gee, how quickly we forget the Covid pandemic and the irreversible damage it has done to the quality, and price of our products.

How quickly we forget covid was mild as far as pandemics go and was preceded by over 100 years of no major pandemics. During those 100 years the world population quadrupled to 8 billion. WHO says covid killed 3 million people.

. And now we're on the brink of WW III.

Even during world wars almost the entire population of the earth is not engaging in violence.

but it's clear the world is in decay, not getting better.

The world is overall much better than it has ever been. We are lucky to be living in what is probably the best time ever in world history.

The only remedy of which is a change of nature. A change of nature that only occurs when the Spirit of God enters a man through faith in the forgiveness of God. But as I say, that's not what's going to change the world because, as God has told us, most people reject that. As I've said, God's plan is not to save the world, but to save people out of this world.

It is unfortunate you believe in something so negative. It must be a terrible burden. The remedy is human reason which has proven to be much better at improving lives than religion ever has. Religion is a crutch for unhappy people. What we need is to show people how to live happy fulfilled lives and get rid of religious superstition.

 

[positive atheist]

But that is religion. I mean, true religion.

Here is something to help you. Throw out your bibles (much too negative) and get this book.
Here is a video to help you start living a more positive life now.

 

[Gus Bovona]

I always tell people about Action For Happiness, Action for Happiness is a charity that promotes a happier and more caring society. We promote how to be happy, kindness, connection & wellbeing. Researchers know what makes people happy and fulfilled and they are sharing it. This is not rocket science.

I clicked that link with a high degree of skepticism and maybe even cynicism, but I have to admit that the "10 keys to happier living" are actually spot on.

 

[Judges13:18]

Here is something to help you. Throw out your bibles (much too negative) and get this book.
Here is a video to help you start living a more positive life now.

No, I'm not giving up the forgiveness of sin and the life of the Holy Spirit that I have in Christ. I'm not even going to look at your video. Closed minded? No. I've been on your side of things. No thanks. You can have it. That is death and darkness and despair. It's all yours, baby. God saved me from that.

 

[Judges13:18]

How quickly we forget covid was mild as far as pandemics go and was preceded by over 100 years of no major pandemics. During those 100 years the world population quadrupled to 8 billion. WHO says covid killed 3 million people.

Oh, no, I agree. It was mild by history standards. But it still caused a lot of grief. It showed us how terrible a pandemic on the scale of the flu pandemic of the early 20th century will be in our modern age. And all because scientists are playing around with stuff they shouldn't be, but do because they can. We humans are idiots.

 

[Judges13:18]

Even during world wars almost the entire population of the earth is not engaging in violence.

When this cup spills over it will affect everyone. The EMP's alone will devastate everyone's life. Human life exists in a very precarious position at this time in history. Just losing the internet and/or phone service will devastate millions, lol. Then you will see the violence that you were sure was constrained to war zones.

 

[Judges13:18]

The world is overall much better than it has ever been. We are lucky to be living in what is probably the best time ever in world history.

Yes, the standard of living is much higher in human history than it has ever been. On the order of kings and queens in past eras. That is a large reason for the great falling away predicted in scripture, as I showed you (fat and happy people don't think they need God). The world's high standard of living is what will make the loss of that standard of living the impetus for the violence you think will be constrained to active war zones. Spoiled modern people get ugly when they don't have the conveniences and pleasures of their modern electronic devices.

 

[Judges13:18]

It is unfortunate you believe in something so negative. It must be a terrible burden.

No, the burden was being in the world with it's frustrations and discontentment and unsatisfied desires, despite the comfort of it's high standard of living.

The remedy is human reason which has proven to be much better at improving lives than religion ever has.

Uh, yeah....keep me posted on that.

Is it safe to go to downtown Oakland during lunch hour, yet?

Religion is a crutch for unhappy people.

Yep. The release from the slavery of the flesh is exactly what I needed.

What we need is to show people how to live happy fulfilled lives and get rid of religious superstition.

The fruit of the Spirit is not superstition. Neither are the deeds of the flesh to which spoiled modern people are enslaved to and which makes them angry, agitated, discontented people, always grasping and wanting evermore satisfaction. No thanks. It's all yours, baby. Been there, done that.