Choice

[rhomphaeam]

Take a wild guess

Well I couldn't help but ask because the post from which I took the question was so abstract and Edit per mod that for a moment I thought someone was holding you to ransom. I just figured the best approach on balance was to make like I didn't know who you were Tom. I do hope I am not falling into a Edit per mod- I hardly know the chap.

Is that wild enough Tom?

Except you do not speak for Tom and get to misreport what Tom states

Tom notes the gospel is sent to all

Tom does not say everyone who hears the gospel is saved.

Tom does not say full revelation is given to everyone who hears the gospel,

so it is you not Tom who is confused

 

[zerinus]

No Sir, your paradigm is no novelty to these debates. You are not familiar with these topics nor understand them. My suggestion is to do some research and homework before you engage in these debates.

If you want to close your eyes to the truth, and bury your head in the sand, you have that choice, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

 

[Ladodgers6]

If you want to close your eyes to the truth, and bury your head in the sand, you have that choice, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

Bury my head in sand or listen to you? I choose bury my head in the sand. The waves sound better then you.

 

[TomFL]

Well I couldn't help but ask because the post from which I took the question was so abstract and devoid of emotional charm that for a moment I thought someone was holding you to ransom. I just figured the best approach on balance was to make like I didn't know who you were Tom. I do hope I am not falling into a ransom demand now by believing that you are Tom - I hardly know the chap.

Is that wild enough Tom?

You're losing it

 

[Sethproton]

You're losing it

That poster is definately on a unique path

 

[zerinus]

Bury my head in sand or listen to you? I choose bury my head in the sand. The waves sound better then you.

You are not closing your eyes to me, you are closing your eyes to the Bible. I am only reflecting what the Bible says.

 

[Ladodgers6]

You are not closing your eyes to me, you are closing your eyes to the Bible. I am only reflecting what the Bible says.

No, I am closing my eyes and ears to you. No Jim Jones or David Koresh allowed!

 

[zerinus]

No, I am closing my eyes and ears to you. No Jim Jones or David Koresh allowed!

You can say what you like, the verses I have quoted speak for themselves. Respond to them if you can, or it will be plain to everyone that you are closing your eyes to the truth, not to me. If you think you can just get away with that, you are wrong. Nobody is going to be convinced by your running away from the obvious meaning of the words. If those verses are not saying what I claim they are saying, here is your chance to prove me wrong by providing an alternative interpretation; otherwise my interpretation stands, and you have demonstrated your inability to stand the truth, not me.

 

[Manfred]

That is not what the scripture says. I believe what the scripture says, not what you like to think it says.

I am following your logic, just as you are trying to force your logic onto scripture.

I am not a Universalist. I do not believe Jesus died for all men.
He died for men from all nations.

Jesus did not atone for the sin of all men, because He is not a universalist.
He atones for the sin of the men He chooses to reveal the Father to. Those will come to repentance, not by force, but through love.

So you can try and explain how he effectively atones for the sin of all men all you like, He does not.

 

[Manfred]

no. Not my righteousness. never. Only His righteousness imputed to me.
But do I think God is pleased when I do the right thing? Yes.

Nothing you do in your flesh is pleasing to God. That is your wishful thinking.
Your good works are like dirty rags.

The good works done by one who is lead by the Spirit are pleasing to God. He leads such a person to do good works that He had prepared for him to walk in from before the foundation of the world.

If you don't believe me read it for yourself in Ephesians 2.

 

[Manfred]

Tom does not appear confused. He does not believe as you do. You have to read for understanding. There is not just two positions, yours and the one you think is wrong.

God does not choose based on your choosing to believe.

 

[Manfred]

Tom notes the gospel is sent to all

Mark 16:15 (KJV)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Tom notes scripture states Christ died for all all

Tom notes that all receives the same revelation and some choose to burn in hell for eternity.
Tom does not note that this is ridiculous.

 

[Sethproton]

Nothing you do in your flesh is pleasing to God. That is your wishful thinking.
Your good works are like dirty rags.

The good works done by one who is lead by the Spirit are pleasing to God. He leads such a person to do good works that He had prepared for him to walk in from before the foundation of the world.

If you don't believe me read it for yourself in Ephesians 2.

I think you have confused some things together. If a person thinks they can do righteous works to merit salvation, they are wrong. Those attempts are not honored by God. But when it comes to doing good deeds and good works simply out of love for God, He is pleased with that.
You seem to be mixing the two up.
No works can win salvation.
But God loves people doing works that show His love

 

[Sethproton]

Tom notes that all receives the same revelation and some choose to burn in hell for eternity.
Tom does not note that this is ridiculous.

The reason you think it is ridiculous is because your mind has gone to a fantasy calvinistic world that does not exist.
If the real world, God's real world, He informs us and calls us to respond. He allows us to reject him. The Bible speaks of this dynamic from Adam to last lines of Revelation. Because of the twisted thinking of Calvinism, everything said in the Bible about what men choose to do is ignored and twisted into something foreign to God.
Get back to God's real world. Abandon the calvinist fantasy and start taking the Bible for what it says.

 

[Ladodgers6]

You can say what you like, the verses I have quoted speak for themselves. Respond to them if you can, or it will be plain to everyone that you are closing your eyes to the truth, not to me. If you think you can just get away with that, you are wrong. Nobody is going to be convinced by your running away from the obvious meaning of the words. If those verses are not saying what I claim they are saying, here is your chance to prove me wrong by providing an alternative interpretation; otherwise my interpretation stands, and you have demonstrated your inability to stand the truth, not me.

Like I said Jim Jones & David Koresh both were preachers who used Scripture. So google them and you'll see what I mean. You guys don't even know how a sinner is saved. Have no clue! You should!

 

[Manfred]

I think you have confused some things together. If a person thinks they can do righteous works to merit salvation, they are wrong. Those attempts are not honored by God. But when it comes to doing good deeds and good works simply out of love for God, He is pleased with that.
You seem to be mixing the two up.
No works can win salvation.
But God loves people doing works that show His love

Again. Your works that YOU think are done simply out of love, are like dirty rags. You want some glory for doing good deeds because you love God.
If you walk in the Spirit, He/God will lead you into good works that are pleasing to Him and bring Him alone glory.

for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

 

[Manfred]

The reason you think it is ridiculous is because your mind has gone to a fantasy calvinistic world that does not exist.
If the real world, God's real world, He informs us and calls us to respond. He allows us to reject him.

Your fantasy world states that your dead spirit understands the revelation in the Word of God.

Go ahead and believe that as much as you want

 

[TomFL]

Your fantasy world states that your dead spirit understands the revelation in the Word of God.

Go ahead and believe that as much as you want

Believe scripture sure

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:3-5 (KJV)
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[TomFL]

Tom notes that all receives the same revelation and some choose to burn in hell for eternity.
Tom does not note that this is ridiculous.

Tom notes your words display biblical ignorance

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV)
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Acts 28:21-24 (KJV)
21 And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

 

[Manfred]

Believe scripture sure

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:3-5 (KJV)
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You already know that it is Spiritually discerned.
So you can post as many scriptures as you want.
It does not change the fact that your dead spirit cannot receive the revelation within those scriptures.
No matter how hard you try and make people believe those scriptures say you can understand them with a dead spirit.

You are teaching people that they do not need to understand the scriptures spiritually.
You say understand them with your mind, your spirit is not involved.