Circular Reasoning

Our Lord's God said:
Is that the best you could do? 300 years after the apostolic age? That's pitiful dontcha think?
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and I'll raise you 220 -- ?

Tertullian​

[T]he Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).
 
Johan said:
I do not believe that the keys refer to authority at all. Keys are meant to be used to lock or unlock something. Peter was given the keys to Heaven, which consequently means that he received the knowledge of how to (figuratively speaking) unlock the gates of Heaven and enter. But unlike the scribes and the Pharisees who hid their key (Luke 11:52), he was commissioned to disseminate this knowledge. To put it briefly: he was entrusted with the Gospel.
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William F. Albright and C.S. Mann are quite certain when they comment on Matthew 16:19 --

"Isaiah 22:15ff undoubtedly lies behind this saying. The keys are the symbol of authority, and Roland de Vaux [Ancient Israel, tr. by John McHugh, NY: McGraw-Hill, 1961] rightly sees here the same authority as that vested in the vizier, the master of the house, the chamberlain, of the royal household in ancient Israel. Eliakim is described as having the same authority in Isaiah; it was Hilkiah's position until he was ousted, and Jotham as regent is also described as 'over the household' [2 Kings 15:5]....It is of considerable importance that in other contexts, when the disciplinary affairs of the community are being discussed [cf. Matt 18:18; John 20:23] the symbol of the keys is absent, since the sayings apply in those instances to a wider circle....The role of Peter as steward of the Kingdom is further explained as being the exercise of administrative authority, as was the case of the OT chamberlain who held the 'keys.' The clauses 'on earth,' 'in heaven', have reference to the permanent character of the steward's work." (Albright/Mann, The Anchor Bible: Matthew, page 196-197)
 
Arch Stanton said:
and I'll raise you 220 -- ?

Tertullian​

[T]he Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).
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Did you bother to read the rest? Or were you just being dishonest? Or did what Tertullian says just go right over your head?

Tertullian is actually arguing AGAINST your interpretation of the text.

If, because the Lord has said to Peter, Upon this rock will I build My Church, to you have I given the keys of the heavenly kingdom; or, Whatsoever you shall have bound or loosed in earth, shall be bound or loosed in the heavens, you therefore presume that the power of binding and loosing has derived to you, that is, to every Church akin to Peter, (that would be you Arch Stanton) what sort of man are you, subverting and wholly changing the manifest intention of the Lord, conferring (as that intention did) this (gift) personally upon Peter? On you, He says, will I build My Church; and, I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and, Whatsoever you shall have loosed or bound, not what they shall have loosed or bound. For so withal the result teaches. In (Peter) himself the Church was reared; that is, through (Peter) himself; (Peter) himself essayed the key; you see what (key): Men of Israel, let what I say sink into your ears: Jesus the Nazarene, a man destined by God for you, and so forth. (Peter) himself, therefore, was the first to unbar, in Christ's baptism, the entrance to the heavenly kingdom, in which (kingdom) are loosed the sins that were beforetime bound; and those which have not been loosed are bound, in accordance with true salvation;
 
Arch Stanton said:
and I'll raise you 220 -- ?

Tertullian​

[T]he Lord said to Peter, "On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven" [Matt. 16:18-19]. ... Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).
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Whenever we cite Tertullian hes labeled a heretic. When you cite him its a reliable source. Double standard much?
 
Nondenom40 said:
Peter specifically denied Jesus 3 times. Context helps a lot.
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right after 'who is the greatest' ? --

Lk 22:31-32 “Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.”

[Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you (Gr.—humas, plural—“you all”), that he might sift you (Gr.—plural again) like wheat, but I have prayed for YOU (Gr.—sou, singular—Peter alone) that your faith (Gr.—singular again) may not fail; and when YOU (Gr.—singular) have turned again, strengthen your brethren.]
 
Arch Stanton said:
Indeed, but Christ still prayed specifically for Peter [sou] to strengthen his brethren. -- Satan demanded to have you [humas--'you all']
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But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers. (Luke 22:32)

Christ prayed for Peter's faith so that it would fail. And he certainly needed that prayer since he displayed his instability by denying his Lord and later on acting contrary to the Gospel (Gal. 2). Furthermore, Christ commanded Peter to strengthen his brothers after having "turned back". Turned back from what—can you answer that? But none of this is any kind of evidence of Peter being a leader among the apostles.
 
Johan said:
But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers. (Luke 22:32)

Christ prayed for Peter's faith so that it would fail. And he certainly needed that prayer since he displayed his instability by denying his Lord and later on acting contrary to the Gospel (Gal. 2). Furthermore, Christ commanded Peter to strengthen his brothers after having "turned back". Turned back from what—can you answer that? But none of this is any kind of evidence of Peter being a leader among the apostles.
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All good and relevant points. The problem with catholics is it seems they like to skip words or over emphasize others. Its a smoke and mirrors routine. Once you sit back and do 5 minutes of actual study it never says what they want you to think it says. Which is why most if not all catholics are duped.
 
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