Claims of humility

It's really not that important to me. Well apart from the fact that it give really good public examples of just how Christianity can turn someone into a dishonest liar.

Obviously it's important enough to make the accusations.
Accusing me of lying without actual evidence doesn't make me a liar. It only makes you feel better about yourself.


It might be news to you but I have used your posts, on more than in occasion, to help deconvert a few people from Christianity. Your rather fetid dishonesty goes a long way towards disavowing people of the notion that Christians are "good people".
And yet you don't actually provide evidence for your accusations.
Curious how that works.
 
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Accusing me of lying without actual evidence doesn't make me a liar. It only makes you feel better about yourself.



And yet you don't actually provide evidence for your accusations.
Curious how that works.
How many are saying you have been lying now? Just wondering.
 
It's odd isn't it, that you can't answer a question. Avoidance like this is actually a form of dishonesty.
If I'm not actually lying, and you just don't like what I've been saying for the past 9-1/2 years, do you actually think I'm going to be bothered by your accusations?

But since you think your empty assertions without evidence are proof of lies, I've never bothered counting the number of people who have accused me.
But, I'm thinking that you're desperate enough to be right that you have been counting.


There. There's the answer to your "question."
 
It might be news to you but I have used your posts, on more than in occasion, to help deconvert a few people from Christianity. Your rather fetid dishonesty goes a long way towards disavowing people of the notion that Christians are "good people".
.....disavowing people of the notion that Christians are "good people".

Good!
It's important that people know that only acknowledged and admitted sinners are going to enter God's Kingdom.

We do after all read in Romans 3,

Rom 3:23 WEB for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;

So, I find it curious that you think that telling people the truth is going to bother me.


People who believe that Christians are "good" people have false beliefs about Jesus and why he came.

Especially when he plainly stated,

The initial comment from an angel in telling Mary about what Jesus came to do,

Mat 1:21 WEB She shall give birth to a son. You shall name him Jesus, for it is he who shall save his people from their sins.”

Mat 18:11-14 WEB 11 For the Son of Man came to save that which was lost. 12 “What do you think? If a man has one hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine, go to the mountains, and seek that which has gone astray? 13 If he finds it, most certainly I tell you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.


Luk 9:56 WEB For the Son of Man didn’t come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.” ....

Luk 19:10 WEB For the Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Joh 12:47 WEB If anyone listens to my sayings and doesn’t believe, I don’t judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Joh 3:17 WEB For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

Mat 9:13 WEB But you go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Mar 2:17 WEB When Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are healthy have no need for a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Luk 5:32 WEB I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Just what do you think a "sinner" is?

Do you know what sin is?

Since you have read the bible, go back and look at Exodus 20.

Those 10 commandments.... regardless of whether or not you agree with them, disobey even one of those and you will perish.

So.... do you think that people who slander others are good?
Do you think that murderers are good?
Do you think that someone who is a thief is a good person?
Do you think that drunkards, and liars, sexually immoral, greedy, envious people are good people?
Christians are saved from their sin. But they have to acknowledge their sin to God to start their connection with him acknowledging their sin.

So, if you accuse me of lying, the first thing I do is talk to God about it.
I then asked you to provide evidence of it.
You've failed to follow through with the evidence.

So, why would I be concerned about this?

If people are going to be saved, they have to start by acknowledging their wrongs before God.

Refusal to do so excludes others from knowing God.
 
You know very well you've been actually lying.

More lies.
Failure to provide evidence that I'm lying makes you a liar.
I think we're done here.
I'll be reporting this and all future posts by you accusing me of lying without any evidence.
 
So, Bible makes prophecy, Bible reports that prophecy has been fulfilled... you don't see a problem with this?
It's not that simple.
Isn't it possible that the writers of the later Bible books read the prophecies in the earlier ones and merely wrote that they had been fulfilled - adding "eyewitnesses" - in an effort to lend credence to the religion?
It would be difficult to do that if there really wasn't anything there to base it on.
Why do you believe that the prophecies were fulfilled, if the Bible is the only account?
There are 66 books in the Bible, written by different authors from different times and backgrounds all compiled together to make one book.

No. Religious movements need not be based on truth.

For example, you think that every religion but yours is not.
True. A religious movement that was persecuted from the start and for hundreds of years thrived
 
There are 66 books in the Bible, written by different authors from different times and backgrounds all compiled together to make one book.
So, the writers of the later books had access to the earlier books and there are yet more people in the mix that can choose books that report fulfilment of prophecies in earlier books...
True. A religious movement that was persecuted from the start and for hundreds of years thrived
Why must it be true, in order for this to have been the case?
 
So, the writers of the later books had access to the earlier books and there are yet more people in the mix that can choose books that report fulfilment of prophecies in earlier books...
The authors of the NT find prophecies in the OT books that were fulfilled in Christ. There are no books to choose that report fulfillment of prophecies. There are only books in the OT that have prophecies that were not fulfilled until Christ.

Even his own disciples did not understand that prophecy was being fulfilled before their eyes as they walked alongside Jesus daily.

His disciples did not understand these things at first, but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things had been written of him and had been done to him. John 12:16


Here's one example: The prophecy is in the OT in Zechariah 9:9 and is fulfilled by Jesus in John 12:12-16

John12: 12 The next day the great crowd that had come to the festival heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. 13 So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, shouting,

“Hosanna!
Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord—
the King of Israel!”
14 Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it, as it is written:

15 “Do not be afraid, daughter of Zion.
Look, your king is coming,
sitting on a donkey’s colt!”
16 His disciples did not understand these things at first, but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things had been written of him and had been done to him.

Why must it be true, in order for this to have been the case?
It's true that I believe the other religions are false.
 
The authors of the NT find prophecies in the OT books that were fulfilled in Christ.
Or, do they find them and merely report that they were fulfilled?

If these books are the only source of the fulfilment, how would you know this didn't take place?
Even his own disciples did not understand that prophecy was being fulfilled before their eyes as they walked alongside Jesus daily.
Something for which, again, the Bible is the only account.
It's true that I believe the other religions are false.
Why must a religion be true in order for it to survive persecution?

Especially if it is making claims for which there is no mechanism of falsification.
 
Or, do they find them and merely report that they were fulfilled?

If these books are the only source of the fulfilment, how would you know this didn't take place?

Something for which, again, the Bible is the only account.

Why must a religion be true in order for it to survive persecution?

Especially if it is making claims for which there is no mechanism of falsification.
Did you even read the prophecy of Zechariah (written hundreds of years before it was fulfilled by Jesus.)?

The apostles knew there were prophecies of the Messiah in the OT. I don't know how well versed they were in the OT. They didn't realize until after Jesus was glorified that they had taken part to some extent in the fulfillment of OT prophecies. They lived it. They didn't merely report it.

That there have been followers of Christ for hundreds of years is evidence that something happened to cause this news to spread and be believed. It's one layer. Fulfilled prophecies are another. Eyewitness accounts are another. These books were written down by different authors. I've experienced similar things as the new believers did in the Bible when I read the gospel and believed it. More than all of those things (fulfilled prophecies, the spread of the gospel, eyewitness accounts, my experiences of God lends creedence to what I've read in the Bible.
 
Did you even read the prophecy of Zechariah (written hundreds of years before it was fulfilled by Jesus.)?
How do we know it was fulfilled by Jesus?

Because somebody - who had access to it, no less - wrote that it was?
Eyewitness accounts are another.
I don't know about you, but there is a threshold of credulity for which eyewitness accounts would not suffice - if

the person I trusted most in the world
told me today
that they had been abducted by aliens,

I would not believe that it happened.

Make this

anonymous strangers
from two thousand years ago
telling me that other people
saw somebody rise from the dead,

and it becomes tantamount to ridiculous.
 
How do we know it was fulfilled by Jesus?

Because somebody - who had access to it, no less - wrote that it was?

I don't know about you, but there is a threshold of credulity for which eyewitness accounts would not suffice - if

the person I trusted most in the world
told me today
that they had been abducted by aliens,

I would not believe that it happened.

Make this

anonymous strangers
from two thousand years ago
telling me that other people
saw somebody rise from the dead,

and it becomes tantamount to ridiculous.
I didn't believe any of it either until I experienced the God of the Bible. I don't expect you to believe it. But then I wasn't even interested in talking to christians because I didn't believe God existed. Why waste my time? So why do you waste your time talking to me about these things?
 
I didn't believe any of it either until I experienced the God of the Bible. I don't expect you to believe it. But then I wasn't even interested in talking to christians because I didn't believe God existed. Why waste my time? So why do you waste your time talking to me about these things?
How do you know you experienced the God of the Bible?
 
I didn't believe any of it either until I experienced the God of the Bible.
So, you don't believe in him because of the prophecies; you believe in the prophecies because you believe in him?

I know you weren't, but can you see why this would make prophecy a bad argument to use with an atheist? After all, prophecies aren't the reason you believe, so why should they be the reason I believe?
I don't expect you to believe it.
To be honest, I really don't think that anybody using the fulfilled prophecy argument expects an atheist to believe it; it's just another card to play from the apologetic "deck".
 
How do you know you experienced the God of the Bible?
My subjective experiences of his presence and interventions in my life. As well as those experiences with the dark side have convinced me that a spiritual reality exists.
I'm not going to elaborate as I have in the past, you didn't believe them. either. I'll continue to pray for you.
 
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My subjective experiences of his presence and interventions in my life. As well as those experiences with the dark side have convinced me that a spiritual reality exists.
I'm not going to elaborate as I have in the past, you didn't believe them. either. I'll continue to pray for you.
Ok. It should come as no surprise that I'm sceptical otherwise I'd be a believer. I don't know if at the time I posted a link to a video of a chap saying much the same as you, but he was a Hindu I think. When experience supposedly comes from different God's, how much can we rely on an individual experience?
 
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