But God's "residence" existed prior to the rest of creation. So what exactly are you trying to say?
I am saying that you should not presume to link Christ's comment "I came down from heaven" with the creation.
In the bosom of the Father, said Christ. The gnostics, the pythagoreans, the neo-platonists etc have had a field day trying to explain how the Word emerged from the Father as a separate entity in heaven. But what the Word himself refers to is the Word "being in bosom of the Father" (ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς), which, if it is beyond further explanation, doesn't violate the principle of "one God".
I'm not.
Which God Himself, the Father, has always Had His thoughts to Himself. So, there is zero need for another "word" as a person.
I never said He was created. But Jesus was.
The concept of "person" breaks down with God, being but an anthropomorphism of convenience and relation. God is never described in terms of being a human "person" even if for the sake of communication and revelation, personal pronouns are used. To describe the Word as a different person from the Father is not possible unless the word "person" is first described in terms of what is in heaven. Yet no man is able to do it.
Jesus came down from heaven. So yes, in one sense his material body had to be created (there is nothing material in heaven), but in aother sense, his identity, or the invisible part of him, wasn't.
I would agree with you here, and add as well where any "physical" attributes like hands, feet, back, head, eyes, ears, etc., are to be understood as anthropomorphisms.
I agree that He is not human, though the grammar used in our languages speaks in a way that we can relate to Him as such.
I agree there is no "word" separate from the Father that is a person.
His material body didn't exist until he was born. So in what way did he come down from heaven?
Good to see we agree largely.
When he died it is recorded he "gave up his Spirit." So that's one part of him that was both invisible, and came from heaven.
I know we did cjab, so I think we were maybe saying the same thing in different ways and just passing by each other?
But so does everyone's spirit. So what is special?
I know we did cjab, so I think we were maybe saying the same thing in different ways and just passing by each other?
Whereas other men's spirits are created out of God's "breath" (Genesis 2:7) (so to speak), With Jesus, his spirit came from what was within God.
Where do you think God's breath comes from?
God. But the idea is that what comes out of God, in terms of "breath," is not part of God. Is your breath part of you? We are engaged in metaphors here, all the time. We can only adhere to the limits of the metaphor.Where do you think God's breath comes from?
Isn't life part of God, the living God?
Do we want to get into the chemistry and physics of it?
Agreed ?.
True. But the life of each human is his own, unless you're a pantheist, which isn't scriptural. That is why the breath metaphor is used. What is expelled from God is no longer part of God (which I presume is why the Word (logos) was said by Jesus to be "in" God) and not "with" God (surely a mistranslation by John 1:1 - I think the Greek means "according to God.").
No, but we have to understand we're not engaged with pantheism. Even Jesus accepted he wasn't God.
The prophecies that Christians rely on to prove Jesus' lineage depends on it.
A new Adam wouldn't have any human parents.
So, you didn't bother answering what is the difference between the sign of a pregnant virgin compared to a pregnant non-virgin. The sign should be visible to all.
The only place that I recall that the sign of a virgin is discussed is in Deut 22.
17And now he has accused her of shameful conduct, saying, ‘I discovered that your daughter was not a virgin.’ But here is the proof of her virginity.” And they shall spread out the cloth before the city elders.
I don't think Mary provided this sign.
But the spark of life given of God to all returns to Him when we die.
If it's life, why not?
Then we have no difference of opinion here.
I'm not changing anything. Just showing how silly a virgin birth is. You never told me how a virgin birth is a sign. Do you care to try?
Because some have argued that before.
Why argue at all since even Jesus with one parent doesn't make him a new Adam?
By everything I've said.
Likewise
It may return to God, but it isn't absorbed by God. cf. the judgement.
"Life" is answerable to God, not part of God. cf. The Old Testament.
Jesus did say he came from God. That is your issue, but I suggest it's not really a big issue given that God gave life to Adam. The difference just lies in the nature of the life/spirit that God breathed into the man Jesus. Is God so powerless that he cannot do what he wants? Who are the Jews to restrict him?
Tell me the difference between return and absorbed?
God is life. The Tanakh.
And?
No different than what mankind has.
Not to bash on you, but to argue God can do whatever He wants leads to compromising if not contradictory situations.
Jesus says re the dead, "to God all are alive." So they have returned to God, God knows them, but they retain their own life (consciousness).
But life goes out from God, even eternal life. Hence when God breathed into Adam, Adam became a living being,
Jesus isn't just a life, but the eternal life. That is, the very life of God himself (or a portion of it).
Not so. Jesus said he came down from heaven. It's up to you to disprove it. Can you prove Jesus guilty of sin?
God can't contradict himself in any way, but breathing the life of the Logos into Jesus, to whom was granted the eternal life, isn't doing anything of the sort (i.e. contradiction) but fulfilling scripture.
Where does he say this? The righteous are said to be alive and the sinful dead even when alive.
But God's life isn't diminished.
No, he was speaking of the commandments.
All men sin. Jesus broke his vow of wine at the cross, donated to the temple funds for his own personal sins, took on a nazirite vow requiring sacrifices at its completion, came in contact with the dead requiring washing for the purification of sin, etc.
I don't see Jesus fulfilling anything.
It's not just what Jews say.