Did the 7 year old sin?

Bonnie said:
The short answer is--yes.

Anyone who has raised children from infancy knows the "terrible twos", that toddlers and young children can be selfish and willful and disobedient.
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I think you even see it more as grand parents. I have a 4 year old and 1 year old grand daughters that are sisters. The 4 year old is dealing with having to share, while the 1 year old has no filter and everything is hers. They are the most precious things on the planet too me, but without teaching them right from wrong it will most likely not turn out well for them. They have a inherent mindset, ability, or nature, God given, to understand the difference between good and evil, but they still need to be taught that.
 
I’ve worked with children who have attachment disorder. And I adopted one of them. Sometimes they’re called “children without a conscience.”

Some can be born that way. Some had the bonding process interrupted in-utero, by drugs or many other factors. Some never develop a conscience because of abuse or neglect and they haven’t formed any bond with other humans. Healthy bonding is what turns into being able to feel compassion or empathy.

We worked with kids who were actually killing, and felt no remorse at all.

And there are others who have similar circumstances, but somehow manage to pull thru them and become caring people.
 
Markk said:
I think you even see it more as grand parents. I have a 4 year old and 1 year old grand daughters that are sisters. The 4 year old is dealing with having to share, while the 1 year old has no filter and everything is hers. They are the most precious things on the planet too me, but without teaching them right from wrong it will most likely not turn out well for them. They have a inherent mindset, ability, or nature, God given, to understand the difference between good and evil, but they still need to be taught that.
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I agree. I witnessed stuff with my grandsons when they were little. One time our younger grandson, about 3, was tormenting his 4 year old brother, while playing on their parents' king-sized bed, which had a steel barred headboard and footboard. Well, when the younger wouldn't stop bugging his brother, his brother lost patience with him, grabbed his brother, and smacked his head up against the foot rail of the bed. My daughter had to take the younger one to the doctor's to get stitches put in his head.

So, yes, young children sin! Big time (the boys are 19 and 20 now, and mostly friendly with each other).

So, yes, children do need to be guided as to determining right from wrong. Young children are by nature selfish, self-centered creatures. It is up to their parents or whoever raises them to teach them compassion and selflessness.
 
Bonnie said:
The short answer is--yes.

Anyone who has raised children from infancy knows the "terrible twos", that toddlers and young children can be selfish and willful and disobedient.
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I've never had children of my own, but I've been around children enough to know this is obviously true. I have to wonder why Mormons try to deny it?

Children mirror what they see their parents and others do. And once they learn to talk, they see their parents, and then they think there's power in the words themselves. That's why they see their parents denying them things with "no", and they think they can wield that same power just becuase they know how to say, "no".

I was once babysitting my friends' toddler, and come bedtime he gave me a big problem when he wouldn't get into his pajamas. He fought with me for a while, until I told him that if he didn't behave I'd have to spank him. And his response? "Don't you even think about it!" I wonder which parent used that expression on him?

(P.S. I won the pajama battle.)
 
Magdalena said:
I’ve worked with children who have attachment disorder. And I adopted one of them. Sometimes they’re called “children without a conscience.”

Some can be born that way. Some had the bonding process interrupted in-utero, by drugs or many other factors. Some never develop a conscience because of abuse or neglect and they haven’t formed any bond with other humans. Healthy bonding is what turns into being able to feel compassion or empathy.

We worked with kids who were actually killing, and felt no remorse at all.

And there are others who have similar circumstances, but somehow manage to pull thru them and become caring people.
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Interesting....How do they develop? Is this on the autism side of the spectrum?
 
Theo1689 said:
I've never had children of my own, but I've been around children enough to know this is obviously true. I have to wonder why Mormons try to deny it?

Children mirror what they see their parents and others do. And once they learn to talk, they see their parents, and then they think there's power in the words themselves. That's why they see their parents denying them things with "no", and they think they can wield that same power just becuase they know how to say, "no".

I was once babysitting my friends' toddler, and come bedtime he gave me a big problem when he wouldn't get into his pajamas. He fought with me for a while, until I told him that if he didn't behave I'd have to spank him. And his response? "Don't you even think about it!" I wonder which parent used that expression on him?

(P.S. I won the pajama battle.)
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If you had smacked him on the butt, these days you could have been arrested for child abuse!
I had that same problem once, when I was babysitting for a neighbor's 2-year-old boy. He too refused to get into his pajamas, but screamed and wiggled so much that I couldn't get the pjs on him. I finally had to call my mom to help. She too could not get the pajamas on him, even with my help. She finally just smacked him on his thigh, just once--not enough to hurt but boy, did it startled him--so much that he stood still in shock so we could get his pajamas on him. So, we won that battle, too. This was in 1964, I think.
 
Markk said:
Interesting....How do they develop? Is this on the autism side of the spectrum?
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Attachment disorder isn’t on the autism spectrum, although it can present with some overlapping characteristics at times. But RAD (reactive attachment disorder) kids usually develop normally. Unless there are other contributing factors like fetal alcohol syndrome or something.

When you first meet a person with RAD, you might come away thinking what a smart, engaging child. They are extremely superficially charming, can carry on intelligent conversations and come across as well adjusted individuals. But the whole time, they’re sizing you up to see how they can manipulate, control, and ultimately hurt you.

There’s an old documentary called Child of Rage that follows the case of a child, Beth. It’s kind of graphic, but it gives you a good idea of what’s going on. I’ve seen kids that are worse than her. My adopted daughter was hiding kitchen knives under her pillow. When I found them and asked her what she was planning to do with them, she said “stab you while you’re sleeping.” She knew it was wrong, but she didn’t care.
 
Magdalena said:
Attachment disorder isn’t on the autism spectrum, although it can present with some overlapping characteristics at times. But RAD (reactive attachment disorder) kids usually develop normally. Unless there are other contributing factors like fetal alcohol syndrome or something.

When you first meet a person with RAD, you might come away thinking what a smart, engaging child. They are extremely superficially charming, can carry on intelligent conversations and come across as well adjusted individuals. But the whole time, they’re sizing you up to see how they can manipulate, control, and ultimately hurt you.

There’s an old documentary called Child of Rage that follows the case of a child, Beth. It’s kind of graphic, but it gives you a good idea of what’s going on. I’ve seen kids that are worse than her. My adopted daughter was hiding kitchen knives under her pillow. When I found them and asked her what she was planning to do with them, she said “stab you while you’re sleeping.” She knew it was wrong, but she didn’t care.
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Wow!

Do they prey on caring or naive people, or just anyone?

Is your daughter ok now?
 
Markk said:
Wow!

Do they prey on caring or naive people, or just anyone?

Is your daughter ok now?
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Everyone, adults, kids, babies, animals.

She’s much better, and she has formed a bond with me. But that took many years and lots of work by a lot of people. She still has the tendency to lash out, though. That’s totally ingrained in her. That rage goes very deep. She lives in a therapeutic group home where staff is trained to deal with it.
 
Magdalena said:
Everyone, adults, kids, babies, animals.

She’s much better, and she has formed a bond with me. But that took many years and lots of work by a lot of people. She still has the tendency to lash out, though. That’s totally ingrained in her. That rage goes very deep. She lives in a therapeutic group home where staff is trained to deal with it
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My prayers are with you and your daughter. Thanks for sharing.
 
Markk said:
My prayers are with you and your daughter. Thanks for sharing.
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Thanks, Markk. I shared that in this conversation because I do believe that children can sin. Actually, for quite a while I wondered if there was demonic possession involved. But she did know the difference between right and wrong at a very young age. I adopted her when she was 6. She just had no conscience or boundaries to help her choose to do the right things.
 
Markk said:
This resonated with me after our resent discussions here about whether children under the age of 8 are innocent and do not sin.

www.foxnews.com

Two Texas boys, ages 7 and 12, taken into custody in connection with woman stabbed: Sheriff

Two Texas boys, ages seven and 12, were detained in connection with a stabbing Saturday afternoon that left a woman hospitalized in critical condition.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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I've heard people argue for an erroneous age of accountability, but to the best of my knowledge these same still understand these under this would be age still sin, but they are pardoned or not charged with sin for being too young.
 
Nic said:
I've heard people argue for an erroneous age of accountability, but to the best of my knowledge these same still understand these under this would be age still sin, but they are pardoned or not charged with sin for being too young.
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The D&C reads something along the line that Satan has no hold on anyone under 8. I would have to read it. But it is a circular argument and they use words like "innocent."
 
Magdalena said:
Thanks, Markk. I shared that in this conversation because I do believe that children can sin. Actually, for quite a while I wondered if there was demonic possession involved. But she did know the difference between right and wrong at a very young age. I adopted her when she was 6. She just had no conscience or boundaries to help her choose to do the right things.
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Patience is a virtue and blessing you obviously have. I respect the heck out of you for sharing this.
 
Markk said:
This resonated with me after our resent discussions here about whether children under the age of 8 are innocent and do not sin.

www.foxnews.com

Two Texas boys, ages 7 and 12, taken into custody in connection with woman stabbed: Sheriff

Two Texas boys, ages seven and 12, were detained in connection with a stabbing Saturday afternoon that left a woman hospitalized in critical condition.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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They are not held accountable.... At what age do we begin to be accountable to Heavenly Father for what we do? (Eight.) Explain that because Heavenly Father knows we are old enough to be responsible for our actions, he allows something important to take place when we are eight.

LDS.org
 
Richard7 said:
They are not held accountable.... At what age do we begin to be accountable to Heavenly Father for what we do? (Eight.) Explain that because Heavenly Father knows we are old enough to be responsible for our actions, he allows something important to take place when we are eight.

LDS.org
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Was it a sin for the seven year old to stab the women? We are talking about nature, not consequence.
 
Richard7 said:
They are not held accountable.... At what age do we begin to be accountable to Heavenly Father for what we do? (Eight.)
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This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

First of all, children know right from wrong (and are therefore responsible) long before 8-y-o. As has been shown already, even 2-y-o's know when they're doing wrong. They literally wear an expression of defiance.

Further, there is NOTHING "magical" happening to us when we enter our 2,923rd day of existence. That's ridiculous. Some kids mature at an earlier age, and some mature at a later age.

While we have "hard set" ages for different things (drinking, smoking, driving, gun ownership, etc.) these are based more on praxis than on individual determinations of responsibility.
 
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