Do you support war with Russia?

[Eightcrackers]

It is not like they need your permission.

Never said they did.

But does it give them moral licence to invade, in your opinion?

Besides, you are a relativist which means invading or not invading are simply options with no moral baggage attached. Your relativism allows for the strong to kill the weak in abortion and under your model the Russians can invade and kill. It is all natural and consistent with relativism.

Instead of defending the morality of the action, you attack my very concept of morality.
Very telling - suggests that it is not defensible.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Here's an idea, read what I said. Use my words not yours.

No the Azov Battalion is part of the regular army, and it's a Nazi unit. Russia has no military units comprised of Nazis. This is really not hard. Have you been asleep for the last several years?

When you're adopting Nazi units into the regular army, people are free to draw from that whatever conclusions that fact suggests.

The citizens elected a leader that leaned toward the Russians, and that was not good enough for us so we sponsored, encouraged and facilitated the Orange revolution. We've now installed a man that we like who leans toward the West and Russia is not having it.

So is George Soros.

I'm not bashing Ukraine. The fact is there are blatant Nazis among them who been normalized in regularized by the Ukrainian government. That's not the fault of every Ukrainian.

Our track record for supporting people who have viciously murdered and tortured people who we don't like is not especially stellar. The policy question for the United States is do we immerse ourselves in a war between the first most corrupt country in Europe and the second most corrupt country in Europe? From my perspective the only thing that is truly in the US interests, is peace in Europe, and that can be had at a price that cost us virtually nothing.

If memory serves I think they pass the law in New York State that says if you misgender someone you can be fined $360,000. Insane policies is not a reason to go to war, as far as I know. Maybe you're in favor going to war with New York.

Well, you've spoken your truth. I hope it helps to get that off your chest. I'm pretty certain it didn't help anybody else.

It's possible Russia will have a special military operation in Finland to remove the fascist from power.Would you supports Russia's war to rid Finland of it's fascists and give Russia guaranties Finland will not become a member of NATO for Russia's security?

Apologists of Russia’s War Label Finland Fascist Following its Bid to Join NATO

Amidst Finland's bid to join NATO, supporters of Moscow’s claim that Russia is “denazifying” Ukraine have begun to associate Finland, a longstanding neutral country, with fascism.

www.isdglobal.org

 

[Thistle]

We didn't elect Ukraines president.

No, we sponsored the revolution deposing their elected president.

Ukraine did.

And we sponsored the revolution that made sure that he didn't stay there elected president.

Ukrsinians elected their president after Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014,and they elected the president they have now.

Gee, you're kind of selective about the elected presidents of Ukraine that you acknowledge.

Ukraine will never elect another pro Russia president again because of Puttins actions.

Why do we need Ukrainian voters, when we have you?

Not because we elected them.

Exactly, there's no "we" to it, it's you.

PS
There's not going to be peace in Europe if Putin keeps invading other nations.

Putin told us exactly what he was going to do respecting Georgia and Ukraine and NATO membership. There's no mystery here we knew this war was going to happen Putin told us it was going to happen and it happened for exactly the reasons we knew it would.

It doesn't really matter what we do.

People can debate that point and I disagree with it. But what we have already done has caused this war.

Its been up to him all along.

No you're being far too modest on the part of the United States. Putin drew a red line at Ukraine and Georgia and we encouraged both countries to cross it, and precipitated two invasions.

You can want peace all you want but if Putin doesn't , then there's going to be war.

Except that's a hypothetical contrary to fact. Putin had Zelenskyy agreeing to a peace deal at the end of March and we sent Boris Johnson in to blow it up.

No telling which country he will go to war with next.Finland maybe.

That's a truly idiotic statement given the fact that he told us about Georgia and Ukraine we crossed his red line and precipitated two invasions. We knew all about our policy and their consequences, we knew that we were going to precipitate those invasions but we did it anyway.

 

[Thistle]

It's possible Russia will have a special military operation in Finland to remove the fascist from power.Would you supports Russia's war to rid Finland of it's fascists and give Russia guaranties Finland will not become a member of NATO for Russia's security?

Apologists of Russia’s War Label Finland Fascist Following its Bid to Join NATO

Amidst Finland's bid to join NATO, supporters of Moscow’s claim that Russia is “denazifying” Ukraine have begun to associate Finland, a longstanding neutral country, with fascism.

www.isdglobal.org

Direct this question to someone who suggested it.

 

[David1701]

You can take it for what it's worth, this is just my personal opinion, but Ukraine whatever happens there will make no difference in the lives of Americans. If any of the prior invasions of Russia were launched from the border of Ukraine rather than further back into Europe Russia would not exist. This is in fact a big deal for Russia and it's not a big deal for Americans. The ironic twist to my mind is that it is American insistence that is prolonging the war. We want to hurt Russia and we think we can do that with this war. I think we're wrong about that but regardless just packing it in and going home is not a practicable option for Russia. They actually have a security interest in how this question is settled. Russia won't quit because they feel like they can't. We've dug in our heels which means the cost of failure is embarrassing our leaders. Perhaps if I had voted for Joe Biden I might feel like American prestige was on the line but I didn't and I don't.

I'm not American, so I have a somewhat neutral perspective about American intentions; however, I do believe that The Cabal wants to weaken America and Russia dramatically, because they both support Christianity and family values and are powerful countries. I do believe that the war was provoked (e.g. NATO breaking its promises about Eastern expansion and pushing Ukraine to support LGBT degradation, as well as the West seemingly ignoring the neo-Nazi zenophobia, in some parts of Ukraine); but, that is not a valid excuse for Putin's invasion.

I agree that Putin has painted himself into a corner now, and can't back out.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No, we sponsored the revolution deposing their elected president.

And we sponsored the revolution that made sure that he didn't stay there elected president.

Gee, you're kind of selective about the elected presidents of Ukraine that you acknowledge.

Why do we need Ukrainian voters, when we have you?

Exactly, there's no "we" to it, it's you.

Putin told us exactly what he was going to do respecting Georgia and Ukraine and NATO membership. There's no mystery here we knew this war was going to happen Putin told us it was going to happen and it happened for exactly the reasons we knew it would.

People can debate that point and I disagree with it. But what we have already done has caused this war.

No you're being far too modest on the part of the United States. Putin drew a red line at Ukraine and Georgia and we encouraged both countries to cross it, and precipitated two invasions.

Except that's a hypothetical contrary to fact. Putin had Zelenskyy agreeing to a peace deal at the end of March and we sent Boris Johnson in to blow it up.

That's a truly idiotic statement given the fact that he told us about Georgia and Ukraine we crossed his red line and precipitated two invasions. We knew all about our policy and their consequences, we knew that we were going to precipitate those invasions but we did it anyway.

I think Putin will invade Finland next.
I've been told Putin will not allow NATO on his borders.

 

[Backup]

Only if the likes of shi man, backup and whateverman go on the front lines, to match their brave stances on the internet.

haw haw haw

What are you, 12 years old?

 

[Backup]

I think Putin will invade Finland next.
I've been told Putin will not allow NATO on his borders.

If so, the American military would easy destroy the Russian army.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Direct this question to someone who suggested it.

I think Putin suggested it.Anyone who believes Putin would believe he will attack Finland and Sweden next.
Putin wants WW3.

Putin issues fresh warning to Finland and Sweden on installing Nato infrastructure

President says Moscow would respond ‘symmetrically’ to any deployments, and foreign ministry accuses Nato of trying to destabilise Russian society

www.theguardian.com

 

[Thistle]

I'm not American, so I have a somewhat neutral perspective about American intentions; however, I do believe that The Cabal wants to weaken America and Russia dramatically, because they both support Christianity and family values and are powerful countries. I do believe that the war was provoked (e.g. NATO breaking its promises about Eastern expansion and pushing Ukraine to support LGBT degradation, as well as the West seemingly ignoring the neo-Nazi zenophobia, in some parts of Ukraine); but, that is not a valid excuse for Putin's invasion.

I agree that Putin has painted himself into a corner now, and can't back out.

I think we largely agree about the basic facts which is a pretty big improvement over the contrast with my view and many others on this forum.

Back in 2008 the biggest resistance to the idea of raising the prospect of admitting Georgia and Ukraine to NATO came from Angela Merkel. I think generally Europeans at the time we're understandably reticent to poke Russia in the eye respecting Georgia in Ukraine.

Two years earlier Henry Kissinger had predicted a war in Europe if Ukraine ever tried to join NATO. So this was a very reasonable place for caution to be exercised. I think understandably, Russia took the fact that we were driving the train toward Georgia and Ukraine being admitted into NATO as a deliberate provocation and ever since they'd been hoping that the United States could be convinced that this was not the correct policy. Of course they wasted no time about invading Georgia. It is simply take a little longer for them to find it necessary to do the same in Ukraine.

To my mind the easy solution is for the United States to switch course and engage Russia around a negotiating table because the things that would address their security concerns wouldn't change anything except for the better about the security situation in Europe. I don't think Putin is crazy, I don't think he wants to reestablish the Warsaw Pact, I think he simply wants a neutral Ukraine and Georgia.

We could just assume Russia means what they have been saying now for well over a decade and see if that doesn't solve the whole problem. Of course with this much water under the bridge Ukraine will end up having their borders renegotiated and it will not be the same deal that would've been possible back in March of this year. And that I believe is the fault of Biden administration policy and it was an unnecessary error.

I think that US foreign policy should be clearly discernible and reliable from both the perspective of our allies and our adversaries, and I think that both groups should agree that we've got a reasonable foreign policy position and not an arbitrary one.

I expect the terrible consequence for Ukraine over this botched policy is going to be that it's gonna be a much weaker country than it otherwise would have been. And sadly, I think we look much less reliable both to our allies and our adversaries because we adopted what to my mind is an arbitrary position that Russia is weak and we can treat them like a vassal state when from a military standpoint that's not really correct. Their presumed economic weakness has been far overplayed and they're not nearly so weak as the logic of our economic gambit's assume.

 

[Thistle]

It sounds like you believe our foreign policy should be dictated by Putin's insecurities.

This was a choice that we made knowing the cost would be thousands of dead Ukrainians.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

This was a choice that we made knowing the cost would be thousands of dead Ukrainians.

May have been thousands of dead Ukrainians regardless of our policy.

It's Putins policy to kill them so they are dead.Putin may choose to invade Finland next regardless of our policy.Its his policy to kill anyone who wants to join NATO .


He may nuke them.Then you can say it's our fault he used nukes to destroy Finland and Sweden.

Putin issues fresh warning to Finland and Sweden on installing Nato infrastructure

President says Moscow would respond ‘symmetrically’ to any deployments, and foreign ministry accuses Nato of trying to destabilise Russian society

www.theguardian.com

 

[Thistle]

May have been thousands of dead Ukrainians regardless of our policy.

Of natural causes maybe. But not as a result of anything that Russia did. This is about one thing Russia security concerns and getting the United States around a negotiating table and securing the neutrality of Ukraine before it's over.

It's Putins policy to kill them so they are dead.

No it's not! Russia has been giving (the United States primarily) second chances since at least 2008. Our message back to Russia is we can withstand any number of Ukrainian deaths to prove that we can impose our will on you.

Putin may choose to invade Finland next regardless of our policy.

Not unless Finland attacks Russia.

Its his policy to kill anyone who wants to join NATO .

Obviously it is not. He drew a red line at Ukraine and Georgia and he invaded those two countries. All we have to do is listen to what he has said he would do and it would be like a crystal ball.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Of natural causes maybe. But not as a result of anything that Russia did. This is about one thing Russia security concerns and getting the United States around a negotiating table and securing the neutrality of Ukraine before it's over.

No it's not! Russia has been giving (the United States primarily) second chances since at least 2008. Our message back to Russia is we can withstand any number of Ukrainian deaths to prove that we can impose our will on you.

Not unless Finland attacks Russia.

Obviously it is not. He drew a red line at Ukraine and Georgia and he invaded those two countries. All we have to do is listen to what he has said he would do and it would be like a crystal ball.

He is threatening Finland and Sweden.Do you not take Putin seriously?

Yes Putin would invade Finland and Sweden .He's not threatening the US.Hes threatening Finland and Sweden.

As for Putin's invasion of Ukraine.He didn't Invade Ukraine because of the US.He said he is killing all the Nazis in Ukraine.He believes Ukrainians are Nazis so he is killing them.
He said so himself.That was his excuse for invading and he believes it.

Analysis: Putin’s claim that war on Ukraine is to target Nazis is absurd. Here's why

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s selective telling of the past exaggerates the legacy of Nazism in Ukraine while ignoring the state’s historic struggle for pluralism and democracy.

www.pbs.org

 

[Thistle]

He is threatening Finland and Sweden.Do you not take Putin seriously?

Yes Putin would invade Finland and Sweden .He's not threatening the US.Hes threatening Finland and Sweden.

As for Putin's invasion of Ukraine.He didn't Invade Ukraine because of the US.He said he is killing all the Nazis in Ukraine.He believes Ukrainians are Nazis so he is killing them.
He said so himself.That was his excuse for invading and he believes it.

Analysis: Putin’s claim that war on Ukraine is to target Nazis is absurd. Here's why

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s selective telling of the past exaggerates the legacy of Nazism in Ukraine while ignoring the state’s historic struggle for pluralism and democracy.

www.pbs.org

He is certainly not wrong about the Nazis but that's not the primary issue.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

He is certainly not wrong about the Nazis but that's not the primary issue.

That was why he said he started the war.It had nothing to do with the US.

Its the NAZIS.
Now the Nazis are in Finland and Sweden
Time to destroy them all.

 

[Thistle]

That was why he said he started the war.It had nothing to do with the US.

Then how was it did Henry Kissinger predicted this war in 2006?

 

[Temujin]

Then how was it did Henry Kissinger predicted this war in 2006?

Obviously because he is an elite Jew, as well as being one of the Lizard People, and hence in the know

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Then how was it did Henry Kissinger predicted this war in 2006?

According to Putin this is not a war.
Putin declared this a special military operation.

Be thankful your not in Russia.You might be facing prison time for calling it a war.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Then how was it did Henry Kissinger predicted this war in 2006?

Kissinger now says Ukraine should capture all of its property back and join NATO.Do you agree with Kissinger or not?

Kissinger, who was instrumental to U.S. Cold War policy toward the Soviet Union when he served under presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford, has long said Ukraine should remain neutral and not join NATO. Despite this, he said at Davos that the country joining the Transatlantic alliance could be an "appropriate outcome" of Russia's invasion


Kissinger said that Ukraine should recapture territory that has been annexed by Russia while holding negotiations to end the war, which has been going for nearly 11 months

Henry Kissinger's shifting views on Ukraine

The former U.S. secretary of state and national security advisor previously insisted Kyiv should be neutral and not join NATO.

www.newsweek.com