England Cliff College fires a theologian for speaking against homosexuality

Temujin said:
If it's legal, it's not murder. There's no example anywhere anytime of state legalized murder. Like married bachelors, it's a contradiction in terms.

Of course, the state might sanction killing, which you personally think should be murder, but that's not the same thing.
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Exactly. So in your world the Purge movie is a distinct possibility and it's perfectly just. It's perfectly legal. And some would say it's murder. You would say it's state sanctioned killing. Not murder.
 
Backup said:
Who gets to decide?

Are you serious?

I don’t know about you, but I live in a representative Republic. After the Civil Rights movement most of us (not you people) have agreement intolerance is wrong, and we have made acting on intolerance mostly illegal.
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Why do "you people" get to decide? It's subjective remember? What standard of tolerance are you appealing to?
 
Reformedguy said:
Many governments do just that.
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So?? Are you suggesting that morality is decided by government? Or that everyone is obliged to go along with the majority view of morality? Or that morality should be determined for the entire human race by a holy book, specifically your holy book?
 
Reformedguy said:
Exactly. So in your world the Purge movie is a distinct possibility and it's perfectly just. It's perfectly legal. And some would say it's murder. You would say it's state sanctioned killing. Not murder.
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Not having seen the movie in question, you have me at a disadvantage, but let me hazard a guess, it's fiction. Like other dystopian visions of the future. If we don't like them, let's make sure that they don't happen.

Incidentally, a fictional movie does not change the meaning of a legal term, such as murder. State sanctioned killing, however reprehensible, is not murder, just as state sanctioned taxes, however draconian, are not theft. Convicted felons are imprisoned, not kidnapped. Surely this is not beyond a person of your intellect?
 
Temujin said:
So?? Are you suggesting that morality is decided by government? Or that everyone is obliged to go along with the majority view of morality? Or that morality should be determined for the entire human race by a holy book, specifically your holy book?
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According to you I am subject to the majority view of morality. If the majority feels killing unborn children is perfectly moral then it is right? My opinion be damned. Your with the majority you get to decide.
Yes, those 10 Commandments are awful. "Thou shall not steal". Clearly intolerant of thrives.
 
Temujin said:
Not having seen the movie in question, you have me at a disadvantage, but let me hazard a guess, it's fiction. Like other dystopian visions of the future. If we don't like them, let's make sure that they don't happen.

Incidentally, a fictional movie does not change the meaning of a legal term, such as murder. State sanctioned killing, however reprehensible, is not murder, just as state sanctioned taxes, however draconian, are not theft. Convicted felons are imprisoned, not kidnapped. Surely this is not beyond a person of your intellect?
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Of course it is. You should watch it. It's actually a decent movie. So your right, I should not have assumed you have seen it. Basically the premise is for 24 hours the goverment allows you to kill whoever you like with no repercussions.
 
Reformedguy said:
According to you I am subject to the majority view of morality. If the majority feels killing unborn children is perfectly moral then it is right? My opinion be damned. Your with the majority you get to decide.
Yes, those 10 Commandments are awful. "Thou shall not steal". Clearly intolerant of thrives.
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Not at all. You are subject to law, not to other people's morality. You can be as immoral as you like, but if you break the law, you are liable to sanction. Law and morality are two different things, one social,one personal. You are confusing the two.

You also forget that you too are part of society, that your vote is as good as anyone else's. Society consists of us, not of "everyone else who disagrees with me."
 
Reformedguy said:
Of course it is. You should watch it. It's actually a decent movie. So your right, I should not have assumed you have seen it. Basically the premise is for 24 hours the goverment allows you to kill whoever you like with no repercussions.
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Ok. It still doesn't redefine murder, since anyone accused of murder during that period has a cast iron defence, so is not guilty.
 
Temujin said:
Ok. It still doesn't redefine murder, since anyone accused of murder during that period has a cast iron defence, so is not guilty.
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Exactly. So is it still murder in your eyes or simply state sanctioned killing? I'm my opinion it's murder.
 
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Temujin said:
Not at all. You are subject to law, not to other people's morality. You can be as immoral as you like, but if you break the law, you are liable to sanction. Law and morality are two different things, one social,one personal. You are confusing the two.

You also forget that you too are part of society, that your vote is as good as anyone else's. Society consists of us, not of "everyone else who disagrees with me."
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I disagree. Laws can and do contain morality. Augustines "morality laws" contained in them morality dictated by the state.
 
Reformedguy said:
Exactly. So is it still murder in your eyes or simply state sanctioned killing? I'm my opinion it's murder.
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Murder isn't a matter of opinion. It's a legal, not a moral term. Sorry to be pedantic, but I have had some legal training and this makes my teeth itch. I think that the example you give would be immoral in the extreme. I would be virulently opposed to it. But it would not be murder. Unjustifiable, government sanctioned homicide, yes. Murder no. If it's legal, however wrong you think it is, it isn't murder.
 
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