Faith precedes regeneration Ephesians 1:3

fltom said:
doesn't change the fact they were sealed in Christ when thery believed

Ephesians 1:13 (LSB) — 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

do you imagine God has varies his criteria for sealing men in christ

your arguement appears desparate
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Descriptive, not prescriptive. No condition is given whereby I choose to place myself in Christ. FAIL
 
Reformedguy said:
Descriptive, not prescriptive. No condition is given whereby I choose to place myself in Christ. FAIL
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Is “ when “ you believed in your Bible ? This indicates the time it happened , the time when they became “ in Him “ . In Christ came when they heard the message( the gospel ), were saved after they first believed.

Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed,
 
Theophilus said:
Is “ when “ you believed in your Bible ? This indicates the time it happened , the time when they became “ in Him “ . In Christ came when they heard the message( the gospel ), were saved after they first believed.

Eph 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed,
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Sorry, it's descriptive, not prescriptive. It does not say choose to believe and you will be placed in Christ.

Did you believe when you were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world?
 
TibiasDad said:
Regeneration and being born again are, by definition, synonymous terms. Both terms refer to the restoration of life that once was dead!

Doug
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Then why didn't Nicodemus treat being born again as something that is dead being restored to life? Why didn't Jesus refer to being born again as restoration of life that was once dead? How did Nicodemus treat it? How am I supposed to crawl back up into the womb to be born again? Being born again is just as Jesus presented it. No longer born of flesh (metaphorically speaking) but of the spirit. Regeneration is being brought back to life. Not exactly the same thing.
 
fltom said:
Faith precedes regeneration Ephesians 1:3



How can it be any other way. All heavenly blessings are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (ESV) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,



In fact, every stage of the application of our redemption is given to us because we are “in Christ.” It is “in Christ” that we are called to salvation (1 Cor. 7:22), regenerated (Eph. 2:1, 5), and justified (Rom. 8:1; 2 Cor. 5:21; Eph. 1:7; Phil. 3:9; Col. 1:14). and “in him” our bodies will be raised up again (1 Cor. 15:22



remission of sin? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



Justification? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



Regeneration? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



Salvation? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



So how does one get in Christ?



According to scripture



Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



Ephesians 1:13 (NA27) — 13 ἐν ᾧ καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀκούσαντες τὸν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας, τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τῆς σωτηρίας ὑμῶν, ἐν ᾧ καὶ πιστεύσαντες ἐσφραγίσθητε τῷ πνεύματι τῆς ἐπαγγελίας τῷ ἁγίῳ,



One is sealed in Christ when one believes in him (ἐν ᾧ)

Both the first ἐν ᾧ and the second are to relate to the ἐσφραγίσηθητε = “in whom, on hearing and believing, ye were sealed”; it being in Christ, in virtue of our union with Him, that we receive the gift of the Spirit.

The πιστεύσαντες here expresses something prior to the fact conveyed by the definite verb, not contemporaneous with it (Harl.). The sealing was in Christ (ἐν ᾧ), and it followed on their πίστις.—ἐσφραγίσθητε: ye were sealed. Expositors Greek Testament

In whom also, &c.] Better, In Whom moreover, on believing, ye were sealed, &c. The Gr. does not forbid the rendering, “on believing in Whom;” but this demands an unusual construction. —The Christian is here viewed as “sealed in Christ;” that is, as receiving a Divine attestation of his union with his Lord. Cambridge Bible

In whom also. In the Lord Jesus. A little different translation of this verse will convey more clearly its meaning. "In whom also ye, having heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation,) in whom having also believed, ye were sealed," etc. The sealing was the result of believing, and that was the result of hearing the gospel. Comp. Romans 10:14,15.

Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.

But notice carefully the term “IN HIM” which is used throughout the entire chapter. Verse 13 tells us how one comes to be IN HIM. Notice the order:

1. “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation.”

They heard the truth…the gospel.

2. “When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit”

They were mark IN HIM after they believed.

Clearly, Paul is saying that those who are IN HIM (through faith) are predestined to become holy (sanctified) and adopted (glorified). The text says nothing about God predestining some individual to believe the gospel so as to be IN HIM, as Calvinism reads into the text.

The last part of verse 13 is literally, "They were sealed in Him [Christ] with the Holy Spirit of promise

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.



The key to being in Christ is to believe, to have Faith



Therefore



Faith precedes remission of sin



Faith precedes justification



Faith precedes regeneration



Faith precedes Salvation
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What a poor treatment of God’s word!
 
Carbon said:
What a poor treatment of God’s word!
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But if the post is loooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnngggg it adds credibility! It has to be true, look how long it was!

Just string a bunch of short one-liners together, double space them, and *voila* it is all true.

Oh, and before I forget, regeneration happens while we were dead in trespasses. Anti-Calvinists hate that truth.
 
fltom said:
Faith precedes regeneration Ephesians 1:3



How can it be any other way. All heavenly blessings are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (ESV) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,



In fact, every stage of the application of our redemption is given to us because we are “in Christ.” It is “in Christ” that we are called to salvation (1 Cor. 7:22), regenerated (Eph. 2:1, 5), and justified (Rom. 8:1; 2 Cor. 5:21; Eph. 1:7; Phil. 3:9; Col. 1:14). and “in him” our bodies will be raised up again (1 Cor. 15:22



remission of sin? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



Justification? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



Regeneration? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



Salvation? It’s a heavenly blessing and in Christ



So how does one get in Christ?



According to scripture



Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



Ephesians 1:13 (NA27) — 13 ἐν ᾧ καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀκούσαντες τὸν λόγον τῆς ἀληθείας, τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τῆς σωτηρίας ὑμῶν, ἐν ᾧ καὶ πιστεύσαντες ἐσφραγίσθητε τῷ πνεύματι τῆς ἐπαγγελίας τῷ ἁγίῳ,



One is sealed in Christ when one believes in him (ἐν ᾧ)

Both the first ἐν ᾧ and the second are to relate to the ἐσφραγίσηθητε = “in whom, on hearing and believing, ye were sealed”; it being in Christ, in virtue of our union with Him, that we receive the gift of the Spirit.

The πιστεύσαντες here expresses something prior to the fact conveyed by the definite verb, not contemporaneous with it (Harl.). The sealing was in Christ (ἐν ᾧ), and it followed on their πίστις.—ἐσφραγίσθητε: ye were sealed. Expositors Greek Testament

In whom also, &c.] Better, In Whom moreover, on believing, ye were sealed, &c. The Gr. does not forbid the rendering, “on believing in Whom;” but this demands an unusual construction. —The Christian is here viewed as “sealed in Christ;” that is, as receiving a Divine attestation of his union with his Lord. Cambridge Bible

In whom also. In the Lord Jesus. A little different translation of this verse will convey more clearly its meaning. "In whom also ye, having heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation,) in whom having also believed, ye were sealed," etc. The sealing was the result of believing, and that was the result of hearing the gospel. Comp. Romans 10:14,15.

Barnes' Notes on the New Testament.

But notice carefully the term “IN HIM” which is used throughout the entire chapter. Verse 13 tells us how one comes to be IN HIM. Notice the order:

1. “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation.”

They heard the truth…the gospel.

2. “When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit”

They were mark IN HIM after they believed.

Clearly, Paul is saying that those who are IN HIM (through faith) are predestined to become holy (sanctified) and adopted (glorified). The text says nothing about God predestining some individual to believe the gospel so as to be IN HIM, as Calvinism reads into the text.

The last part of verse 13 is literally, "They were sealed in Him [Christ] with the Holy Spirit of promise

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.



The key to being in Christ is to believe, to have Faith



Therefore



Faith precedes remission of sin



Faith precedes justification



Faith precedes regeneration



Faith precedes Salvation
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??
 
Carbon said:
You do because Mac does? I don’t think he does, prove it
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Most Calvinist theologians link the gospel and tulip together as inseparable . Are you sure you are a Calvinist ? Read the links as proof . Read Spurgeon who says that tulip is the gospel .
 
Theophilus said:
Most Calvinist theologians link the gospel and tulip together as inseparable . Are you sure you are a Calvinist ? Read the links as proof . Read Spurgeon who says that tulip is the gospel .
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Show me where spurgron says such.

I don’t believe you understand what they are saying. No believer would say something is the gospel that is not the gospel.

Do you know what the gospel is? Do you know where it is in scripture?

Does Arminianism teach the gospel?
Does Calvinism teach the gospel?
 
Carbon said:
Show me where spurgron says such.

I don’t believe you understand what they are saying. No believer would say something is the gospel that is not the gospel.

Do you know what the gospel is? Do you know where it is in scripture?

Does Arminianism teach the gospel?
Does Calvinism teach the gospel?
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The false gospel of Calvinism by Spurgeon

“I have my own opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified unless we preach what is nowadays called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism. Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. "

reformedbaptistdaily.wordpress.com

Charles Spurgeon: “Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.”​

If there is any doubt in anyone’s mind as to whether or not the so-called “Prince of preachers” was a Calvinist, let the following quotation, taken from his sermon on 1 Corinthian…
reformedbaptistdaily.wordpress.com
reformedbaptistdaily.wordpress.com
 
Theophilus said:
The false gospel of Calvinism by Spurgeon

“I have my own opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified unless we preach what is nowadays called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism. Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. "
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Why can’t you be truthful with me?
He mentions tulip no where in this.


Theophilus said:
reformedbaptistdaily.wordpress.com

Charles Spurgeon: “Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else.”​

If there is any doubt in anyone’s mind as to whether or not the so-called “Prince of preachers” was a Calvinist, let the following quotation, taken from his sermon on 1 Corinthian…
reformedbaptistdaily.wordpress.com
reformedbaptistdaily.wordpress.com
Click to expand...
 
Carbon said:
It’s quite simple, just copy and paste his words saying such and give the link.
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"And I have my own private opinion, that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism. Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in his dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor, I think, can we preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the peculiar redemption which Christ made for his elect and chosen people; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation, after having believed. Such a gospel I abhor. The gospel of the Bible is not such a gospel as that. We preach Christ and him crucified in a different fashion, and to all gainsayers we reply, ‘We have not so learned Christ."[Spurgeon’s Sermons, vol. I (Baker Books, reprinted 2007), 88-89.]
 
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