Free will

fltom said:
Already proved it with scripture you ignored

Philemon 14 (ASV) — 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
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I agree with the text. Giving above what is required is not necessary but you may if you freely chose to do so. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. Nothing to do with determinism. In fact this verse fits perfectly with my definition. Thanks
 
Reformedguy said:
I agree with the text. Giving above what is required is not necessary but you may if you freely chose to do so. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. Nothing to do with determinism. In fact this verse fits perfectly with my definition. Thanks
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No, you do not agree with the text.

Philemon 14 (ASV) — 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.

Necessity is contrary to free will, but you believe they can be synonymous.

Determinism involves necessity.
 
fltom said:
No, you do not agree with the text.

Philemon 14 (ASV) — 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.

Necessity is contrary to free will, but you believe they can be synonymous.

Determinism involves necessity.
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"Determinism involves necessity". Prove it.

Your proof text, you rip out of its context does not help you.
 
Reformedguy said:
"Determinism involves necessity". Prove it.

Your proof text, you rip out of its context does not help you.
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Duh you did

It does necessitate sin if God determined it to occur. See Acts 4:27,28


  - Calvinism, The Only View That Can Consistently Justify The Omni-Attributes of God With Scripture and Logic!

So do you deny that God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden? That would be absurd, if you were to deny it. The tree being in the garden is the sufficient cause of sin. Do you deny this? Placing the tree in the garden did not cause sin. You clearly lack...
forums.carm.org

do you have any idea what you are talking about?
 
CookedGoose said:
It is not Tom.
Belief is "given" by God, it's a gift.

Coercion would mean it is forced upon the individual using a threat.
It's the opposite of coercion.
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It is

Force ,Compulsion, necessity are all contrary to free will

(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.

(AOB) BUT WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT I DID NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING, SO THAT YOUR GOODNESS WOULD NOT BE, IN EFFECT, BY COMPULSION BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

(BBE) But without your approval I would do nothing; so that your good works might not be forced, but done freely from your heart.

etc
 
fltom said:
Duh you did

It does necessitate sin if God determined it to occur. See Acts 4:27,28


  - Calvinism, The Only View That Can Consistently Justify The Omni-Attributes of God With Scripture and Logic!

So do you deny that God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden? That would be absurd, if you were to deny it. The tree being in the garden is the sufficient cause of sin. Do you deny this? Placing the tree in the garden did not cause sin. You clearly lack...
forums.carm.org

do you have any idea what you are talking about?
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Exactly. Thank you. Crucifing a innocent person is a sin. Yet it was planned, determined, brought about by His hand. Yet they freely chose to do so and were held accountable. Unless they were robots and God is a accessory to murder.
 
fltom said:
It is

Force ,Compulsion, necessity are all contrary to free will
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But faith is described as a gift, so none of your definitions fit.
fltom said:
(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
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Right, free will by way of a gift, not coercion.
fltom said:
(AOB) BUT WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT I DID NOT WANT TO DO ANYTHING, SO THAT YOUR GOODNESS WOULD NOT BE, IN EFFECT, BY COMPULSION BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.
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Further proof coercion is not used.
fltom said:
(BBE) But without your approval I would do nothing; so that your good works might not be forced, but done freely from your heart.

etc
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further proof the gift is not "forced" or "coerced".
A freely given gift can not be coerced.
It's free.
 
Reformedguy said:
Exactly. Thank you. Crucifing a innocent person is a sin. Yet it was planned, determined, brought about by His hand. Yet they freely chose to do so and were held accountable. Unless they were robots and God is a accessory to murder.
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You ignored the fact you challenged the idea that determinism involves necessity.

you were refuted, as you now agree it does
 
CookedGoose said:
But faith is described as a gift, so none of your definitions fit.
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Salvation is the gift not faith

Romans 6:23 (KJV 1900) — 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (KJV 1900) — 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


CookedGoose said:
Right, free will by way of a gift, not coercion.
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So you show free will is contrary to coercion
CookedGoose said:
Further proof coercion is not used.

further proof the gift is not "forced" or "coerced".
A freely given gift can not be coerced.
It's free.
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So you still affirm free will is contrary to force

as I stated
 
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