Guilt offering and the missing imputation

[Reformedguy]

Then you cannot impute sin upon him

for to reckon is a meaning of imputation

Who says?

 

[Reformedguy]

You are not making much sense

As I stated to reckon is the meaning of impute

I will say it again, use whatever word you like, He was not made a sinner nor did He commit sin.

 

[fltom]

I will say it again, use whatever word you like, He was not made a sinner nor did He commit sin.

Words have meaning you cannot change their meaning because it is inconvient for your theology

If you impute sin you impure guilt

 

[Reformedguy]

Words have meaning you cannot change their meaning because it is inconvient for your theology

If you impute sin you impure guilt

Who says?

 

[fltom]

Who says?

Word meaning

 

[guest1]

impute definition

Law. to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.

 

[Reformedguy]

impute definition

Law. to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.

Exactly what 2 Corinthians 5:21 says. Thank you

 

[fltom]

impute definition

Law. to ascribe to or charge (a person) with an act or quality because of the conduct of another over whom one has control or for whose acts or conduct one is responsible.

Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another.

Seems the imputation of sin involves guilt

 

[fltom]

Exactly what 2 Corinthians 5:21 says. Thank you

You just contradicted yourself

and affirmed guilt

"Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another."

 

[Reformedguy]

You just contradicted yourself

and affirmed guilt

"Theology. to attribute (righteousness, guilt, etc.) to a person or persons vicariously; ascribe as derived from another."

Christ was not guilty of anything as was pointed out before. No more than I am righteous because His righteousness is imputed to me.

 

[guest1]

Christ was not guilty of anything as was pointed out before. No more than I am righteous because His righteousness is imputed to me.

That definition says guilt is imputed and you agreed when I posted that definition. So the guilt was imputed for sin to Christ.

 

[Reformedguy]

That definition says guilt is imputed and you agreed when I posted that definition. So the guilt was imputed for sin to Christ.

I can agree with that as long as we say He is not guilty in and of Himself.

 

[fltom]

Christ was not guilty of anything as was pointed out before. No more than I am righteous because His righteousness is imputed to me.

Then you put your foot in your mouth when you spoke approvingly of Civics definition

But you do not believe you were counted as righteous because his righteousness was imputed to you?

 

[Reformedguy]

Then you put your foot in your mouth when you spoke approvingly of Civics definition

But you do not believe you were counted as righteous because his righteousness was imputed to you?

The answer would be yes and I can agree with civics definition. Your lack of understanding is astounding

 

[fltom]

The answer would be yes and I can agree with civics definition. Your lack of understanding is astounding

You put your foot back in your mouth.

I guess you must like it there.

Civic's definition spoke of guilt being imputed

You denied guilt was imputed

TILT

 

[Reformedguy]

You put your foot back in your mouth.

I guess you must like it there.

Civic's definition spoke of guilt being imputed

You denied guilt was imputed

TILT

Depends on what you mean by that. If you mean guilty as in sinning or becoming a sinner then absolutely not. He took on my guilt. He did not become guilty. Understand? Should I go slower?

 

[fltom]

Depends on what you mean by that. If you mean guilty as in sinning or becoming a sinner then absolutely not. He took on my guilt. He did not become guilty. Understand? Should I go slower?

Now you are fudging

First you denied guilt

now he took your guilt

but was not guilty

and you still affirm a definition which speaks of guilt being imputed

Sounds convoluted

 

[Reformedguy]

Now you are fudging

First you denied guilt

now he took your guilt

but was not guilty

and you still affirm a definition which speaks of guilt being imputed

Sounds convoluted

Christ is not guilty. He took on my guilt, paid the penalty all the while never sinning or becoming a sinner. Thank you. Next?

 

[fltom]

Christ is not guilty. He took on my guilt, paid the penalty all the while never sinning or becoming a sinner. Thank you. Next?

Well imputation involves guilt according to definition

and dictionary


I. Meaning and Use of the Term

The word “imputation,” according to the scriptural usage, denotes an attributing of something to a person, or a charging of one with anything, or a setting of something to one’s account. This takes place sometimes in a judicial manner, so that the thing imputed becomes a ground of reward or punishment. Impute is used three times in the RSV. In 1 S. 22:15, it translates Heb. ʾal-yāśēm (lit “do not put”; NEB “not accuse”). In Ps. 32:2 and Lev. 17:4, “impute” translates Heb. ḥāšaḇ, “think,” “account,” “reckon” (BDB, pp. 362f.). Lev. 17:4 teaches that bloodguilt was imputed to a man who killed a sacrificial animal without bringing it to the tent of meeting for sacrifice. Ps. 32:2 called the man blessed to whom the Lord did not impute sin. The RSV uses “reckon” for Gk. logízomai when Paul quotes Ps. 32:2 in Rom. 4:8 (see RECKON). The RSV does not use “impute” for any word in the NT. The AV uses “impute” for both ḥāšaḇ (Lev. 17:4; Ps. 32:2) and logízomai (Rom. 4:6, 8; etc.) (cf. “count” in Gen. 15:6; Rom. 4:3; etc.). The NEB has “count” (Gen. 15:6; Rom. 4:3f, 6; etc.), “held guilty” (Lev. 17:4), and “account” (Ps. 32:2).
These synonyms of the verb “impute” bring out the idea of reckoning or charging to one’s account. It makes no difference, so far as the meaning of imputation is concerned, who it is that imputes, whether man (1 S. 22:15) or God (Ps. 32:2); it makes no difference what is imputed, whether a good deed for reward (Ps. 106:30f) or a bad deed for punishment (Lev. 17:4); and it makes no difference whether that which is imputed is something which is personally one’s own prior to the imputation, as in the case above cited, where his own good deed was imputed to Phinehas (Ps. 106:30f), or something which is not personally one’s own prior to the imputation, as where Paul asks that a debt not personally his own be charged to him (Philem. 18). In all these cases the act of imputation is simply the charging of one with something. It denotes just what we mean by our ordinary use of the term. It does not change the inward state or character of the person to whom something is imputed. When, for example, we say that we impute bad motives to anyone, we do not mean that we make such a one bad; and just so in the Scripture the phrase “to impute iniquity” does not mean to make one personally bad, but simply to lay iniquity to his charge. Hence when God is said “to impute sin” to anyone, the meaning is that God accounts such a one to be a sinner, and consequently guilty and liable to punishment. Similarly, the non-imputation of sin means simply not to lay it to one’s charge as a ground of punishment (Ps. 32:2). In the same manner, when God is said “to impute righteousness” to a person, the meaning is that He judicially accounts such a one to be righteous and entitled to all the rewards of a righteous person (Rom. 4:6, 11).


C. W. Hodge, “Imputation,” The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988) 812.

 

[Reformedguy]

Well imputation involves guilt according to definition

and dictionary


I. Meaning and Use of the Term

The word “imputation,” according to the scriptural usage, denotes an attributing of something to a person, or a charging of one with anything, or a setting of something to one’s account. This takes place sometimes in a judicial manner, so that the thing imputed becomes a ground of reward or punishment. Impute is used three times in the RSV. In 1 S. 22:15, it translates Heb. ʾal-yāśēm (lit “do not put”; NEB “not accuse”). In Ps. 32:2 and Lev. 17:4, “impute” translates Heb. ḥāšaḇ, “think,” “account,” “reckon” (BDB, pp. 362f.). Lev. 17:4 teaches that bloodguilt was imputed to a man who killed a sacrificial animal without bringing it to the tent of meeting for sacrifice. Ps. 32:2 called the man blessed to whom the Lord did not impute sin. The RSV uses “reckon” for Gk. logízomai when Paul quotes Ps. 32:2 in Rom. 4:8 (see RECKON). The RSV does not use “impute” for any word in the NT. The AV uses “impute” for both ḥāšaḇ (Lev. 17:4; Ps. 32:2) and logízomai (Rom. 4:6, 8; etc.) (cf. “count” in Gen. 15:6; Rom. 4:3; etc.). The NEB has “count” (Gen. 15:6; Rom. 4:3f, 6; etc.), “held guilty” (Lev. 17:4), and “account” (Ps. 32:2).
These synonyms of the verb “impute” bring out the idea of reckoning or charging to one’s account. It makes no difference, so far as the meaning of imputation is concerned, who it is that imputes, whether man (1 S. 22:15) or God (Ps. 32:2); it makes no difference what is imputed, whether a good deed for reward (Ps. 106:30f) or a bad deed for punishment (Lev. 17:4); and it makes no difference whether that which is imputed is something which is personally one’s own prior to the imputation, as in the case above cited, where his own good deed was imputed to Phinehas (Ps. 106:30f), or something which is not personally one’s own prior to the imputation, as where Paul asks that a debt not personally his own be charged to him (Philem. 18). In all these cases the act of imputation is simply the charging of one with something. It denotes just what we mean by our ordinary use of the term. It does not change the inward state or character of the person to whom something is imputed. When, for example, we say that we impute bad motives to anyone, we do not mean that we make such a one bad; and just so in the Scripture the phrase “to impute iniquity” does not mean to make one personally bad, but simply to lay iniquity to his charge. Hence when God is said “to impute sin” to anyone, the meaning is that God accounts such a one to be a sinner, and consequently guilty and liable to punishment. Similarly, the non-imputation of sin means simply not to lay it to one’s charge as a ground of punishment (Ps. 32:2). In the same manner, when God is said “to impute righteousness” to a person, the meaning is that He judicially accounts such a one to be righteous and entitled to all the rewards of a righteous person (Rom. 4:6, 11).


C. W. Hodge, “Imputation,” The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised (Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1979–1988) 812.

And I explained, thank you.