Janice Bower
Well-known member
For those who think Mormons actually believe all of the Doctrine and Covenants, they don't! The D&C says the "hg" can dwell in individuals. The lessons say he can be in only one place at a time.
Have Mormons been given the Holy Ghost?
- Thread starter Theo1689
- Start date
Richard7
Well-known member
A little Scripture study might help Theo.... Receive the Holy Ghost! oh my!
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Richard7
Well-known member
Argue with the Bible Bonnie, not me!
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Bonnie
Super Member
No, YOU are, Richard.
I am not arguing with the Bible at all, Richard! YOU are!
I fully realize that in the above quote the HS came to those people AFTER they were baptized in water. But this was one incident. There are OTHER incidents in the Bible, like in Acts 10, where the HS came to people BEFORE BEING BAPTIZED IN WATER. I don't know why you think the great HS is held captive to some sort of arbitrary timetable put out by your "church." He comes and goes to whomever HE wishes, WHENever He wishes, and HOWever He wishes!
Now YOU are arguing with the Bible in Acts 10, where it clearly says that Cornelius, et. al. received the HS BEFORE baptism in water! Peter said so!
The gift of the HS isn't a reference here to speaking in tongues, because the circumcised believers also heard them praising God. Also, vs. 44 says that the HS came "on all who heard the message" that Peter had told them. Speaking in tongues and praising God were simply the evidence for this. But Peter goes on to say that they had received the HS just as he and his circumcised brethren had. And this was BEFORE water baptism, Richard!
So it is YOU that is arguing with the Bible, Richard--not me!
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Richard7
Well-known member
(Psalm 133:1-3; 1 Corinthians 1:10-17)
1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who isabove all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Bonnie
Super Member
What does this have to do with the fact that the HS came to Cornelius et. al. BEFORE they were baptized in water? Or is this just another diversionary tactic on your part, to keep from having to deal with what Acts 10 says?
Cornelius and his family and friends received the gift of the HS BEFORE being baptized in water. The Holy Spirit WAS the gift, which they received. BEFORE baptism in water.
Now, we have been told that Mormons believe the Bible....so, do you believe what Acts 10 says?
Do you?
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Richard7
Well-known member
Here is what we teach, but nobody in our church is forced to believe anything other then what they have a witness of.
1). 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who isabove all, and through all, and in you all.
2). 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
I believe Act 10 is talking about giving a gift of tongues.... what else does he mention?
We are not as the topic tries to proclaim, but we do receive the Holy Ghost as the Bible also proclaims... argue with Peter.
Have Mormons been given the Holy Ghost?
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Do you agree with Peter??? obviously your are conflicted, one says one thing to you and then another verse throws a wrench in your first belief... chuckle.
Janice Bower
Well-known member
Theo1689
Well-known member
Did you notice that "gave" is in the PAST tense?
And do you also "believe" the verse that teaches that God no longer uses "prophets"?:
Heb. 1:1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
At lets's talk about why teh Christian church (in accordance with Heb. 1:1-2) has not had "prophets" since the coming of Christ. Mormons falsely claim it's evidence of some sort of "apostasy". But maybe it was simply God's plan all along.
Richard7
Well-known member
Both... thanks..
Richard7
Well-known member
THE EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE HEBREWS, interesting epistle: They provide an insight into the beliefs and controversies of early Christianity. As part of the canon of the New Testament, they are foundational texts for both Christian theology and ethics (wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle)
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The fullness of Christ had not yet been completed as we all know.
“‘Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself: that in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.’ [Ephesians 1:9–10.]
EDITED INFLAMMATORY CONTENT
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Bonnie
Super Member
First of all, no one really knows who wrote the Epistle to the Hebrews, though some attribute it to Paul. However, the author was certainly part of the Pauline circle.
The main controversy discussed in the epistle is that the Jewish believers, because of their persecution, were tempted to go back to their Judaism religion. The author then proceeds to show them how much superior is the NEW covenant in the blood of Christ, over the OLD covenant in the blood of lambs and bulls. In fact, the main word used in this epistle is "better." The new Covenant is so much better than the old! No more Levitical/Aaronic priesthoods! No more animal sacrifices, which can never take away sins! No, we have the blood of the one and only Lamb of God, Who alone takes away the sin of the world, the guarante-er of a better covenant!
What do you mean here?
Richard, just what are you trying to say here, because you are making no sense.
Since you seem to be so fond of Hebrews, do note that the author said the old covenant and old priesthood were obsolete and ready to disappear....which they did, with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in AD 70. We have no more need for some phony baloney Aaronic "priesthood" since ALL believers are a royal priesthood to God the Father, with Jesus Christ as our great high priest, the ONLY one of the Melchizedek priesthood.
Bonnie
Super Member
It is not about receiving the gift of tongues. You are refusing to read what else is in these verses.
See that? The HS came to those who heard Peter's message.
I am not arguing with Peter, but with you and your narrow view of how and when and to whom the HS comes. He goes to whom He pleases and when He pleases. And He came to Cornelius et. al. BEFORE baptism in water. That was HIS perogative. He isn't beholden to some Mormon timetable.
Cornelius et. al. RECEIVED the HS just as Peter and the circumcised brethren had. IN THE SAME WAY.
No, if they had, they would no longer be Mormons and realize it is full of errors and find a bible believing church that taught Christ crucified for our sins and raised from the dead for our justification, so we can have eternal life in His Name.
I have already addressed this. This was an instance when the HS came AFTER baptism. The story in Acts 10 is a little different. Deal with it:
In this instance, yes, of course.
I am NOT conflicted at all, but YOU certainly are since you refuse to acknowledge what Acts 10 says!
You are totally and completely wrong here, Richard, and are simply projecting. YOU are the one that had a monkey wrench thrown in your beliefs that the HS can ONLY come AFTER baptism in water! What foolishness! Who are we to tell the HS when and how He can come to people? He goes and comes as He pleases. He isn't held captive to some Mormon timetable.
Do YOU agree with Peter HERE?
Janice Bower
Well-known member
You can't believe both. The D&C is lying if you believe what is taught by your leaders.
Bonnie
Super Member
They are trying to have it both ways, to cover their church's collective heinie. So as not to have it appear to be....contradictory and therefore, wrong. Truth doesn't contradict itself.