Heb 9:12 When did Jesus obtain eternal redemption: the Cross or the Ascension?

[1Thess521]

Hebrews 9:11-12

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption
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Do Catholics believe that eternal redemption was not obtained or completed until the Ascension?

 

[balshan]

Hebrews 9:11-12

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption
-----------------------------------
Do Catholics believe that eternal redemption was not obtained or completed until the Ascension?

excellent question.

 

[Stella1000]

Hebrews 9:11-12

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption
-----------------------------------
Do Catholics believe that eternal redemption was not obtained or completed until the Ascension?

The Ascension completed Christs atoning work as Hebrews implies... when He entered "the Most Holy Place".

 

[1Thess521]

The Ascension completed Christs atoning work as Hebrews implies... when He entered "the Most Holy Place".

are you saying that Christ did not complete His atoning work while on the Cross?

 

[Stella1000]

are you saying that Christ did not complete His atoning work while on the Cross?

Scripture describes a 'way' of salvation and the Ascension was part of that way as per John 14 2... I go to prepare a place for you?

 

[1Thess521]

Scripture describes a 'way' of salvation and the Ascension was part of that way as per John 14 2... I go to prepare a place for you?

it seems as if you are saying you saying that Christ did not complete His atoning work while on the Cross.

"The Ascension completed Christs atoning work as Hebrews implies... when He entered "the Most Holy Place""
-Stella 1000

Can you clarify?

 

[dingoling.]

Hebrews 9:11-12

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption
-----------------------------------
Do Catholics believe that eternal redemption was not obtained or completed until the Ascension?

That is what scripture indicates.

 

[Buzzard]

Christ saith
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said,
It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Do Catholics believe that eternal redemption was not obtained or completed until the Ascension?

"Yea hath God said"

Scripture describes a 'way' of salvation and the Ascension was part of that way as per John 14 2... I go to prepare a place for you?

That is what scripture indicates.

 

[1Thess521]

That is what scripture indicates.

I'm surprised you didn't claim it happed at the Last Supper

In regards to salvation: did anything happen on the Cross?

IOW : you have propiation, the New Covenant gong into effect and the penalty of sins being paid at the Last Supper
you have have eternal redemption being completed after the Ascension

so In regards to salvation: did anything happen on the Cross?

 

[Stella1000]

it seems as if you are saying you saying that Christ did not complete His atoning work while on the Cross.

"The Ascension completed Christs atoning work as Hebrews implies... when He entered "the Most Holy Place""
-Stella 1000

Can you clarify?

His sacrificial death was complete on the Cross but he then set about setting the captives free ie. He descended into hell and took those souls with Him to heaven and by His Ascension he opened the Way for us to follow.

What do you see as the point of the Ascension?

 

[balshan]

His sacrificial death was complete on the Cross but he then set about setting the captives free ie. He descended into hell and took those souls with Him to heaven and by His Ascension he opened the Way for us to follow.

What do you see as the point of the Ascension?

So every soul in hell went to heaven?

 

[A new day]

The Ascension completed Christs atoning work as Hebrews implies... when He entered "the Most Holy Place".

This is something adventists say and teach. Not all who sound religious are truly godly people. Rc's seem to think every group that sounds religious or says "Lord" is accepted by those who follow Jesus. Just because they use some of the same words, Christians use does NOT make them followers of Christ, for their definitions to those same words, and who Jesus is to them have a whole nother meaning that is nothing like what Scripture says and teaches.

No, we who follow and trust Jesus exclusively do not accept every religious group or teaching that comes along. Adventists teach error and a lot of it. What they teach leads people away from the gospel, not too it.

When these groups quote Scripture, they quote it out of context to force into Scripture what it does NOT say. ellen g white and her husband were false teachers through and through.

 

[balshan]

This is something adventists say and teach. Not all who sound religious are truly godly people. Rc's seem to think every group that sounds religious or says "Lord" is accepted by those who follow Jesus. Just because they use some of the same words, Christians use does NOT make them followers of Christ, for their definitions to those same words, and who Jesus is to them have a whole nother meaning that is nothing like what Scripture says and teaches.

No, we who follow and trust Jesus exclusively do not accept every religious group or teaching that comes along. Adventists teach error and a lot of it. What they teach leads people away from the gospel, not too it.

When these groups quote Scripture, they quote it out of context to force into Scripture what it does NOT say. ellen g white and her husband were false teachers through and through.

Spot on

 

[Bonnie]

On the cross. He took our sins and nailed them to the cross with Himself, taking them out of the way. That is why Paul calls the Gospel message the "message of the cross." It isn't "the message of Ascension."

 

[dingoling.]

On the cross. He took our sins and nailed them to the cross with Himself, taking them out of the way. That is why Paul calls the Gospel message the "message of the cross." It isn't "the message of Ascension."

But on the day of Atonement the high priest killed the bull he had to take the blood of the bull into the temple and put it on the Ark of the Covenant. In a similar manor Jesus had to take his blood into the heavenly tabernacle and enter the Holy of Holies with his own blood to obtain eternal redemption. That is what it says in scripture.

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation), he entered once for all into the Holy Place, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption."

 

[A new day]

But on the day of Atonement the high priest killed the bull he had to take the blood of the bull into the temple and put it on the Ark of the Covenant. In a similar manor Jesus had to take his blood into the heavenly tabernacle and enter the Holy of Holies with his own blood to obtain eternal redemption. That is what it says in scripture.

I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told Stella,

This is something adventists say and teach. Not all who sound religious are truly godly people. Rc's seem to think every group that sounds religious or says "Lord" is accepted by those who follow Jesus. Just because they use some of the same words, Christians use does NOT make them followers of Christ, for their definitions to those same words, and who Jesus is to them have a whole nother meaning that is nothing like what Scripture says and teaches.

No, we who follow and trust Jesus exclusively do not accept every religious group or teaching that comes along. Adventists teach error and a lot of it. What they teach leads people away from the gospel, not too it.

When these groups quote Scripture, they quote it out of context to force into Scripture what it does NOT say. ellen g white and her husband were false teachers through and through.

 

[Bonnie]

But on the day of Atonement the high priest killed the bull he had to take the blood of the bull into the temple and put it on the Ark of the Covenant. In a similar manor Jesus had to take his blood into the heavenly tabernacle and enter the Holy of Holies with his own blood to obtain eternal redemption. That is what it says in scripture.

Hebrews 9:11-12, "But when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation), he entered once for all into the Holy Place, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption."

Hebrew ALSO says this, in the first chapter: "After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."

The Bolded part is past tense. He first provided purification for sins, and THEN sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

When Jesus died, the heavy curtain in the temple that separated the Holy of Holies from the rest of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom, indicating there was no more separation between us and God.

Jesus shed His blood on the cross. He paid for our sins on the cross, taking them out of the way. The temple tearing in two at Jesus' death demonstrated this.

Paul also says in Romans 4 that Jesus was delivered over because of our transgressions and raised from the dead for our justification. So, Jesus paid fully for our sins on the cross, thus eliminating the barrier between us and God, and this went into effect for all at Jesus' resurrection--not His ascension.

Jesus' soul went to heaven with that of the thief on the cross at death, the very day of His crucifixion. Else, how could He on the third day, raise up His own body from the grave, as He said He would, when He said "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up"?

 

[dingoling.]

I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told Stella,

This is something adventists say and teach. Not all who sound religious are truly godly people. Rc's seem to think every group that sounds religious or says "Lord" is accepted by those who follow Jesus. Just because they use some of the same words, Christians use does NOT make them followers of Christ, for their definitions to those same words, and who Jesus is to them have a whole nother meaning that is nothing like what Scripture says and teaches.

No, we who follow and trust Jesus exclusively do not accept every religious group or teaching that comes along. Adventists teach error and a lot of it. What they teach leads people away from the gospel, not too it.

When these groups quote Scripture, they quote it out of context to force into Scripture what it does NOT say. ellen g white and her husband were false teachers through and through.

The same could be said of the nCCs.

 

[A new day]

The same could be said of the nCCs.

Who do you think the adventists are? They are non-rc's.

The beliefs listed below are agreed upon by any serious evangelist that the gospel message is at the core of Christianity. And that they are essential to the Christian faith. Any person or denomination doesn't matter who they are; who removes or changes one or more of the core belief's will soon find their religion is null and void and they are practicing an empty and dead faith.

Any denomination that claims to be Christian but deny one or more of the essentials of the Christian faith is to be avoided doesn't matter who they are or the name of the denomination.

Jesus is the Son of God and is equal with God
Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life
Jesus was crucified to pay the penalty for our sins
Jesus rose from the dead
We are saved by the grace of God; that is, we cannot add to or take away from Christ’s finished work on the cross as full payment for our sin
God's written word is infallible

Jesus is fully God, and fully man at the same time
There must be a spiritual transformation

There is only one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Are co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will.

 

[Stella1000]

This is something adventists say and teach. Not all who sound religious are truly godly people. Rc's seem to think every group that sounds religious or says "Lord" is accepted by those who follow Jesus. Just because they use some of the same words, Christians use does NOT make them followers of Christ, for their definitions to those same words, and who Jesus is to them have a whole nother meaning that is nothing like what Scripture says and teaches.

No, we who follow and trust Jesus exclusively do not accept every religious group or teaching that comes along. Adventists teach error and a lot of it. What they teach leads people away from the gospel, not too it.

When these groups quote Scripture, they quote it out of context to force into Scripture what it does NOT say. ellen g white and her husband were false teachers through and through.

I don't follow? Where did I say the Adventists are correct?